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Hello everybody, I want to know the precise source where Government of India has issued directives to cellular operators for verifying the address and identity proof docs before activation of the handset. What action can be taken against the companies indulging in activation of handsets without verifying or even receiving these docs. Whether connections once activated can be de-activated on account of the above deficiency. I tried to search for previous posts on the subject for a few minutes but could not get a precise result. Hope someone here knows them and posts it here.

With the disgust and revulsion I have for the RIM (for what I think I have more than adequate reasons) I forgot about one funny aspect with RIM. You know they have been sending several sms's exhorting me to pay the bills and take home a 'surprise gift', 'cool gift' etc. I don't know if any of you have recd such sms. They were offering one torch light (Eveready with MRP of 400 (?) on one such ocassion). They have been organising bill suljhao camps for settlement of disputes (Ofcourse no body is in a position to explain or admit what went wrong or why it went wrong) and the smart cust care gal (occassionally guy) gives a patient hearing to all that you want to say. They have a limitation of 10% and ofcourse there is nobody else higher to give a reply. I think this very offer of a gift for settling your due bills and giving discounts itself speaks volumes about the faulty and inaccurate billing system let alone other contractual obligations

There have been several unresolved matters between me and the reliance infocom. a) I have requested them to let me know about the tariff for the month of march 2003 when the agents were telling that all calls were free. I wrote to them on 4th march and they replied that the calls are "absolutely free" on 21st March 2003. However they have billed me for more than 450 rupees. There is no response from them for all these months Like wise I wrote in the beginning of April 2003 and recd a mail during the end of April specifying certain charges by other operators. Again they have sent me a bill at rates which are at variance from their own email. As expected there is no explanation. c) they have charged me for calls which were not recd by the called party. I came to know about only by seeing the calls from the residence to the GSM Mobile which I disconnected. The Webworld executive said that he can waive the bill by a flat 10% and nothing more because he is not authorised more than that. This was at the main Office in Hyderabad. The one near my residence shook their head and said that they "cannot handle the case". d) The duration of the call starts from the moment the call connect alert is heard on the handset irrespective of the fact that the called party can respond even after 10-15 seconds. Infact you don't get to hear the ringing sound of the called phone till atleast a few seconds elapse from the call connect alert. So typically all calls are inflated by a minimum of 15 seconds which may increase if the called party takes some time to answer. Even unmatured calls account for the 400 minutes in the DAPO. e) They have realised my cheque for the quarter Feb-April in late Jan but disconnected my service without resolving the dispute as I have been requesting them to fix me an appointment with one of their senior executives who does does not have the 10% limitation. Even the so called free SMS facility is withdrawn. f)Finally as per the POF1 scheme I am entitled to 400 minutes of outgoing calls and not a credit of 40 paisa per minute as they are now doing. What legal authority do they have in mandating a customer to use their service for the specified 400 minutes just to get back the money paid to the company in advance that too for a quarter? Under these circumstances, can somebody please let me know if instructing the bank to stop payment of the unencahed post dated cheques casues trouble?

Hello everybody. One of the major issues that the moderators of this forum should be facing could be that newbies like me in their enthusiasm to post their opinions will rush to post it without going through all the posts and topics before. It is both time consuming and probably avoidable to expect everyone to read all the topics and then start a new topic. Though I don't have the competence or knowledge about to link a search engine to a website, I know it is possible as can be seen on certain sites. Can it be considered to attach a search engine (preferably free with few ads) to this site for the convenience of all us.

:'( It is beleived that the more the service providers, the better and cheaper will be the service. Unfortunately, this seems to be proving totally false. I use a LG RD2030 handset. I have purchased the R-conncet cable and s/w as soon as they were available in the market. It was a disappointment as the spped was never even near to the promised 115 kbps. The maximum speed I got is 11kbps. They replied that the spped can be upto 115kbps whereas they cannot guarantee any minimum speed. Fine - Probably we are not destined to have cheap and fast acces to the net. SHOCK The instrument displays "Dormant" whenever there is no data transfer to or from the web. It gets automatically connected at its own will. Thus a call is registered to your account even if you have not disconnected. It keeps connecting and "dormant" at its own volition. I have discovered other problems as well and I will write about them shortly.

We have been already fooled in beleiving that we are paying only 150/- whereas they have charged a non-refundable Rs 500 activation charges (which works out to 42.50 per month additionally) and the deposit of 500 is forefeited if you walk out of the scheme before one year. They don't even allow you to switch plans unless you pay for the activation charges of the other scheme say plan-99. But one good thing I find about Airtel is that they have clearly mentioned all these facts and to top it all there billing is very nice. Now we can even browse the detailed billing (itemised) free of cost over the internet. It's time that the CP Act 1986 is amended so as to make a) a voluntary body of consumer activists vet the offers and make observations. it mandatory for the service provider to refer to the above observations in brief in the application itself and give the link or source of the full text of observations to the prospective and interested customer.

Though it is true that too much choice will be difficult forselecting the best option or plan, the major problem is the fineprint and asterisks in the contract. And ofcourse the lack of a system or mechanism to redress the grievances. I feel it will be adequate if there is no lock in period and there is no cost involved for the customer if he chooses to change the service. I will browse the TRAI site and see if I can send it before the deadline. However, I am sure that they will never respond or consider individual opinions as they don't have the time to reply whether the current plans and offers offered by various operators have been approved. But still I will make a try right now as I will be out of station till the month end will not have a chance to surf for long.

It may not happen in India becuase if reforms failed in some country(Brazil?), it does not mean that they should fail in every other country. It may be that the absolute number of Indians who can sustain the market for modern gadgets and services is much higher than in the developed countries or other developing countries though as a nation we may rank in the bottom rows of the table if per capita income is the criteria. It is amazing that in a span of just one decade we have got so many life style changing goods and services. Atleast part of India is shining. The credit goes to Dr Manmohan Singh and ofcourse the wise old man Sri PV Narasimha Rao. Companies like Reliance or Tata don't espouse the socialist cause of erstwhile DoT or other PSUs. There was another article i don't recall where I read it which states that perhaps only four operators will be left, and smaller operators will either die or amalgamate into the four or five large players. The current subscriber base of about 80 million should be sufficient to see all of them doing excellently well. The apprehension of the author may be misplaced.

And TRAI with all the authority vested in it cannot resolve.

This method seems to be the order of the day only in respect of the so called hitech banks and their credit card and personal loan Departments. As I have already posted, it is a matter of fact that Reliance is engaging local goondas with the patronage of political goondas as was reported by TV9 news channel and widely publicised by the vernacular media. It is a pathetic state of affairs for bonafide customers and other good companied excepting Reliance.

One more addition to theie feature rich handset stable. But 24000 appears to be prohibitively expensive

Thanks to both of you. And apologies forposting this topic.

I was trying to edit the message when I had to attend to a long call. The last stmt above should include the phrase at the promised/contracted rates

Hello niket, I am happy that I am understood more clearly. I agree with you in toto that I should pay whatever charges I have agreed to pay. I am aware that the handsets are simply marvellous and the features are pioneering genuinely. I am also aware that the tariff is the net result of several extraneous factors and the blame lies partly on the TRAI. My singular grouse is the same. You commit something in a legally enforceable doc and simply ignore it when not convenient. If they are so confident of their service and competetive tariffs, I fail to understand as to why they should have a lock in period. I think the most important reasons for many of the DAPO subscribers were the advantage of connectivity, mobility and low talktime cost. They are not available now. And still you are bound to get hooked on to them for three years. If the DAPO tariff is so attractive, why don't they leave you the option of going out without any loss. Now coming to the tariff structure, I recall that Bajaj used to sell its RTZ motorcycle at a loss of more than 2 thousand rupees a piece when its price was 13000/- The strategy was simple, absorb the losses to capture the market. Fortunately they never devised a way to recover the loss or more possibly they never had the opportunity to do something like it. Reliance also seems to have gone by the same strategy but being more successful than all other Indian companies, is not absorbing the losses. I did not go by the CC people or the sales agents. I have sent them a mail and recd a reply. And I sent the reply on the day following my getting the connection. They are enforcing part of the contract which is useful or profitable for them and ignoring other parts of the contract. At one point in time, I went and discussed this matter with a very reputed and respected advocate on the idea of filing a Public Interest Litigation. That is the degree to which I am frustrated at being pushed to the wall I am also happy that I have been got the advance member status.

That is great news. Probably we will be paying for credit reports as they are said to be doing in the US. I wish this will be succesful. So far so good. It will be much more pleasurable if there are similar consumer welfare organisations also to protect consumer interests.

The forum does not enable uploading the excel file. If someone is intersted, I can send to them by email. Or if the Admin permits, i will rename the file so that it can be uploaded. It can then be opened in excell.

I regret that some of you opine that my posts are not written with balance. I do not where you find me criticising the company without factual data. I bought the cable almost in the first or second week of the availability of the data cable. This had been my experience and I am not writing this today. I have corresponded witht the company already and they have not denied my contentions. I have just compared the tariff. nothing more. It is my personal experience that i mentioned. I have every reason and right to criticise constructively. The tarif or my disputed bill with the company is not the issue. The core issue is why should you attempt to mislead the public. I would request all of you to enlighten me on the following: a) Why did the company not mention that they have not even filed the tariff plans before TRAI when they were getting customers sign the doc. I don't know if u recall their call national pay local slogan, 15sec/10paisa pulse rate etc. Do you consider it ethical business to publicise something knowing fully well that they cannot be fulfilled. c) Did TRAI approve of the three year lock in scheme as of today. Its website never mentions it and the Reliance is silent despite repeatedly reminded. d) Which clause in the application authorises the company to force the subscriber to use their service for 400 minutes just to get back your own advance money. Am I not entitled to limit myself to 160 rupees worth time however less it may be. e) Why did they charge us for March 2003 against the tariff sent by their customer care. (Pl se the attachment) f) If the instrument goes into "dormancy" for no fault of mine, why should I pay an inflated bill. g) They have billed me and several others in Hyderabad for calls recd outside home location. Notwithstanding the fact that the instrument did not leave the heart of the SDCA, I fail to understand as to why they gave that chargeable service without my asking for it. I make one thing very clear, I am not criticising Reliance or canvassing for BSNL. I have no interest in either of the undertakings. And it is also not for the part of the bill which I dispute. Infact the company has reduced the bill by 10% and it covers a significant part of what I had been disputing. I also read about the post by reliance=chor post and the sarcastic replies thereto. There is no way I can support an individual who does not pay up a bill he owes (He has not disputed in the post atleast ). The point I am trying to make is that there is a method and order established by law. The proper course will be to file a civil suit before a competent court and recover the money due along with the interest and cost. Merely because one party to the unsettled bill feels that they have the might to recover and direct the collection agents to recover by unlawful means, are we not going back to the past jungle raj(with due respect to animals). In several cases posted on the forum bills have not been recd. If the company asks all of them to pay interest on the dues should we pay. Pl note that the terms and conditions which we have signed, states something to the effect that communication by email, sms etc are deemed to be communications. Can they now simply say that we have sent an sms to the mobile or that u could have cheked up from R-world etc and recover the interest due I have no intention of posting to a forum where a judgement is made without any basis. I offer to get out of this forum even if 2% of the existing members find my post unbalanced or otherwise deficient.

The speed is destined to get lower once more customers buy the data cable and connect to the net. I think a very small percentage has bought the data cable. I am not aware of the numbers, but the pc penetration in our country is quite low. Amongst them, the number of users interested to use the R-conncet service will be lesser. As far as speed is concerned (I have been using the R-connect almost immediately since they introduced the data cable) and it has been very erratic and compared quite evenly with the BSNL dial up connection. The connection to the net, however was almost instantaneous without the screeching modem sounds. As of now, it looks the BSNL tariff is lower (60 ps per 3 mts + 10 ps per min for ISP) which is 90 paisa for a three minute call. And you don't pay 200 rs per month. The best part of it is the connection will be on throughout and u will not get inflated R-Connect bills (because the R-connect goes into dormancy when ever the data transfer stops and reconnects again when we click another link or other button). Even the cost of the data cable is quite expensive at 1200/-. The best option for our city (many areas) is cable internet where they charge from something around 500 rs. service tax included. If u intend to use the net for long hours or have several downloads etc, cable connection is the best option. You can install a download manager, start the download process, switch off the monitor and go to sleep! I have downloaded fedora core linux in one go (5-6 hours).

Congrats. Many homes (perhaps overwhelming majority of those who can afford) are really addicted to TV. Atleast this is what I perceive from the way the cable operators hike their subscription at will and still have their way. I will make an attempt to reduce the TV usage time. I think I will not be successful, because everybody will retort that I am addicted to internet and computer.

As it is cable tv has become an addiction with most of Indian homes. Several instances of being forced to satiate the greed of cable operators have been reported in the media. The fight between the cable operators has been bloody and gruesome at times. I wish that at least this time there will be some order in the war and the consumer is not the idiot. Most importantly, going by what the TRAI has done in the past, i am very skeptic that it will be able to ward off the possible difficulties. Perhaps it needs more manpower and other resources.

Thanks for the advice chirag. they have disconnected once and re-connected last year. It has been disconnected since the beginning of feb this year. They have reconnected last sunday after I made some payment when they rectified some of the mistakes that I have been writing. They gave a 10% discount on the total outstanding bill.

I am sorry if my posts or replies offend you or are not as per your taste. But the simple fact of all my efforts is to ensure that atleast one potential customer of reliance is becomes aware of my posts and therefore makes a knowledgeable decision. As far as going to court is concerned, it is very much an option and I will decide on excersing that option at the appropriate time.

I was talking about the potential customers

The question of disconnecting electricity for non-payment of telephone bills may be too far fetched. It does not make reason to beleive it because BSES (formerly) should be catering to a very small percentage of their all india subscriber base. But don't be surprised if local rowdy sheeters manhandle you for recovery as was shown on a private television channel. The media personnel were also physically assaulted as reported. This issue was protested by various media associations and was adequately reported in the local media. And to my surprise, I found that they have inserted a clause in the application form that states that the subscriber will be liable for the expenditure incurred for recovery including those by the collection agents.

It's absolutely correct and perhaps unarguable that the entry of Reliance has changed the face of the industry. Unfortunately reliance seems to have lost the best possible opportunity by trying to chew more than it can - I mean for the vast network and perhaps the second largest and fastest grown customer base they should have doen a littel home work before venturing. There was no need for the company to keep its mouthshut about the tariffs till about the last moment they came into the service. Ofcourse, it is also obvious to me that their clout in places that matter have given them the policy of having presence in all the telecom cirles. That was denied in the beginning just because that will lead to a monopoly or oligopaly. The most recent thing they have apparently managed is the roaming beyond CDMA. Well, this is apparently in public interest that we can bear a lesser cost to be connected. But the methodology of the company and the almost blatant support by the Govt is too obvious. I have reproduced the TRAI regulation in another post that the IUC regime is wef 1.5.03 Reliance has charged us even in march and april. You can also browse the TRAI's website (www.trai.gov.in) in which it is clearly mentioned that the operators started filing their plans only after 10 th march 2003 i.e. several weeks of the euphoria generated by Reliance infocom. And the reduced profit for the govt in the revenue sharing formula appears more of a backdoor arnitration to compensate for the loss in license fee for the GSM mobile operators. COAI's decision to withdraw the case of roaming in hon'ble supreme court only proves this. It therefore looks as if the govt is looking after Reliance and BSNL (because most calls wil be between these two large players) at the cost of all other operators. So whether it is postpaid or prepaid, the attitude of Reliance seems to be one that will eventually give them a monopoly in the market as BSNL may never grow to be a match for the private sector in so far as marketting is concerned. Despite my miserable personal experience of disgust dealing with Reliance, I have to admit that there handsets and coverage are the best. Perhaps the moral of the story is that despite several operators in the cut-throat business, the customers' throat is the softest and easiest to cut or slit