Project - Foreign Esn / Meid Handset In Reliance

[HetalDP 947]

I would Request all RimWebians to Join Hands for making Mass user level Request to Reliance to Start Allowing all Customer to enable Foreign ESN / MEID Based Handsets.

Some Point which Support This move is

• As EVDO Services Requires HDR User name and HDR Password it can not Activated in Foreign ESN / MEID Handset the way we were Doing till now.
• Other CDMA Handsets like Samsung Instinct, LG Dare, LG Vu, All Blackberry, Palm Centro is Impossible to Activate unless Reliance dont allow us.
• Reliance will have less Pressure to Introduce the New Handset as after some time Some Retailer like Sadik can do it Officially.
• As MNP is on edge Reliance will have alternative Channel for Customer Support on Handset Front and Retain there Loyal Customer in CDMA.

What Reliance should Expect from Customer who Owns the Handset

• The Customer must know the SPC of Phone or it should be 000000.
• It will not Resposibility of Reliance for Activation Failure.
• Reliance will not be Obliged to Activate R-World on it.
• If Handset is lost Reliance will not Bar the Phone ESN / MEID as it Already Unknown to their Database.
• Reliance may ask for Memo, Bill, Credit Card Statement to get proof of the Ownership of Phone.
• If Such Document is not available then Reliance may ask Client to Indemnify Reliance for any Further Legal complication may arise if the Phone is lost, stolen or misused etc.
• Reliance may Keep a Separate Database for such Clients for their own Purpose.

What Customer Should Expect from Reliance.

• Reliance should Allot Dummy RSN Generated at their End to this New Phone after taking Due Undertaking on a Letter from Client.
• If Easier Method like TATA can be worked out. Other then RSN. if should be done.
• Reliance should Provide Latest PRL File on their Web site Column maintain for this Purpose only.
• A Special Cell should be kept Reliance to maintain Compatibility of Handsets. and This should be also Published on their Site.
• Reliance should Help to Activate Voice, SMS and Internet Access using CDMA 1x and Upcoming EVDO when available using OTA (Over the Air Activation) for Handset announced Compatible.
• All Warrenty Related Issue are not Handled.

How TATA is doing this.

• TATA dont use RSN type Funda to Generating Dummy RSN is not Required at all.
• Just Reset SPC to 000000.
• Load Proper PRL using Approprite Software like QPST, CDMA Workshop or in Windows Based Phone we could Dial ##PST# and load PRL from Memory Card.
• Catch TATA Network then and Dial *228 to Switch your Number from Old Handset to new Foreign ESN / MEID Handset using ICC (Insta Change Card)

Then Why Reliance is not Doing it till now.

• May be They dont want Headache
• There can be so many Reason.
• May be Becuase of RSN Issue

What We Expect from All RimWebians.

I Request All RimWebians to write Their Comments for Some Points

To give me Feedbacks

To Send Email and Fax to Reliance.

Also Send Emails and Faxes to some Government Authorities.

All Official Communication to Reliance must have Your Name, Address, Reliance Mobile Number and Customer ID. All Government Communication must have You Email ID, Name and Address with Reliance Phone Number.

[dkaile 1,051]

One of the best ideas I have heard since I have been on this forum.

Just start it immediately, let me know know, I have started preparing a Draft to be sent to Reliance based on your above inputs.

Awaiting other inputs from all RimWebians

[Asit 4]

It will be really more helpful if Reliance allows it. Lets hope the best.

[Sadikk 301]

I know a guy whose dad is reliance comms Board member, will try to speak to him.

Also It will help mailing directly to Mr S P Shukla.

Alloting RSN for Outside ESN not an issue at all.

Will try reliance officials to see this post and understand the idea how it will benefit them making customers high ARPU, ( As they will use these devices to the core)

Support us guys.

[ACS 130]

-----Then Why Reliance is not Doing it till now------

May be They dont want Headache - Yes, you will never know its some service issue or handset issue.

May be They CC could not Support it - Same reason as above. Also, they know that their CC execs 1st struggle with language, then product, forget technical detailing on each set; let them sleep peacefully.

May be They want to Earn money by Selling Handset from their R-World - Yes, that's how one legitimately charges extra at the WW/WWE's from unsuspecting customers. MRP is always double, especially in LG.

There can be so many Reason. - Our dear members, do suggest what...

Dear HetalDP,

Kindly also have a voting meter in place so that officials from anywhere get the general mood of RimWebians/RIM users.

[pasumark 51]

I have already written many times regarding this to Reliance. Maybe I have not written technically, since I donot have much knowledge in it. Anyway we shall all try together and it adds strength.

But my inner feeling is not to invest anymore in this monopolist CDMA technology and rather move to GSM with Reliance launching GSM and number prortability.

[keanu_reeves 1]

hope anil bhai is istening and piant the town RED and allow all CDMA / GSM handsets and not the 500Rs handsets only

[@ksh@T 20]

well if this happens the situation will improve a lot . . . rather its quite difficult as the bussiness pattern of RCOM is quite unusual

[ksudeep 0]

Hetal_bhai.... good initiative !

Everyone here knows that adding foreign ESN into a family is pretty good thing, esp for techies.

I've served Reliance for 4+ years and know the work culture very well. Let me share my views to approach Reliance people.

1. Instead of writing a letter/email/fax/whatever its better to meet the concerned people in person. Usually they dont give a xxxx to external people. If THEY think this is right, this is right ; unless approached 'rightly'.

2. If somehow its not possible and we've to write, its better if we use minimum technical words. The reason is that most likely the person who is having this authority (to give resident permit to a foreigner) is a non-technical person. He wont be able to understand the words like ESN, SPC etc. May be, we'll add the technical things as as attachment/annexture.

3. These (Reliance) people connects everything to Finance and then decides the approach. (I really mean the word 'everything'). Our task would be pretty easy if we somehow convince them that this gonna give them financial advantage.

[Mufaddal 678]

well a very valid point here by hetal ...as and when mnp comes in rim will loose a lot of its customers who have been fed up with thier sub par devices and now with the competition stiffening even more by introduction of virgin mobile services in india........rim has reaped a lot of money from indian customers by overpricing n selling outdated handsets now its the time to get all those angry customers back into the bandwagon ,n creating the same hysteria as it was when rim services were announced, by providing rsn for foreingn esn n meid s ........so that customer is free to buy whatever he thinks is appropriate for him rahter than tied up by rim in buying their handsets which he has to buy just for the heck of it

hope this time rim listens to us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! C"MON v have been waiting a long time for this

n a very well thought idea hetal !!!!

[Dj 25]

@HP

second your initiative man but i feel Ksudeep's insight might actually help us drive the point home... standing up for this all the way!

[kshah 452]

I was just thinking why CDMA operators across the globe are reluctant to accept foreign handsets, I could figure out following reasons, may be I am wrong.

As per my belief, reliance and tata too are subsidizing atleast entry level handsets to atleast 20-30% of nearest market rates of GSM handsets. They pay royalties to even Qualcomm. If so, why would they not accept foreign handsets?

1. THey may have legal or qualcomm restrictions. One may argue about TATA accepting foreign handsets.

2. In CDMA handset cloning is very easy. Infact, easiest. In GSM SIM Ver-2 is almost impossible to clone, where as in CDMA, I am sure, its very easy to clone handset. Thats why, perhaps reliance adopted RSN policy. So that cloning is difficult and Tata adopted unique MIN number as handset changes.

3. I do not agree with the arguement that it is not possible to program handset by operators, infact as per standards, operator can program every thing OVER THE AIR, only thing is they need to invest money and MORE IMPORTANTLY BRAIN.

4. May be they want to earn from RWORLD contents, hence they are tightly controlling foreign handsets.

[Dj 25]

I was just thinking why CDMA operators across the globe are reluctant to accept foreign handsets, I could figure out following reasons, may be I am wrong.

As per my belief, reliance and tata too are subsidizing atleast entry level handsets to atleast 20-30% of nearest market rates of GSM handsets. They pay royalties to even Qualcomm. If so, why would they not accept foreign handsets?

1. THey may have legal or qualcomm restrictions. One may argue about TATA accepting foreign handsets.

2. In CDMA handset cloning is very easy. Infact, easiest. In GSM SIM Ver-2 is almost impossible to clone, where as in CDMA, I am sure, its very easy to clone handset. Thats why, perhaps reliance adopted RSN policy. So that cloning is difficult and Tata adopted unique MIN number as handset changes.

3. I do not agree with the arguement that it is not possible to program handset by operators, infact as per standards, operator can program every thing OVER THE AIR, only thing is they need to invest money and MORE IMPORTANTLY BRAIN.

4. May be they want to earn from RWORLD contents, hence they are tightly controlling foreign handsets.

i can perhaps ascribe this nature of reliance against foreign handsets to a similar ploy that nokia plays... when it can bring out most features in one handset, it makes umpteem variables... leaving one or more of the most desirable feature hence urging u to buy from within the range and then upgrade in future... just a thought !

[KumaarShah 143]

AFAIK, RCOM will not entertain foreign ESNs as they have not been doing so for such a long time now. There must be some other complications also like security etc for them to not accept foreign ESNs. In any case, high end users ( read foreign ESN users) make for a very miniscule number on their network and hence they may not be interested. Of course, if they open up then maybe the numbers may shoot up. The revenues from a single high end subscriber can be very easily offset by some 15 to 20 low end customers itself, so why should they bother about one high end subscriber. And Reliance (right from DHA, MDA and ADA) believe only in masses and not classes. Thats where the moolah is, they will not enable foreign ESNs in my view. On the flip side, they also lose RWorld revenues as many of us already know. So all the more reason for them to not help our cause.

CDMA tech vs GSM tech - always the winner is GSM. Somewhere else on this forum, it was mentioned that RCOM may not go in for EVDO at all, in which case, 3G GSM will always be far better and superior than 2G CDMA. From the way things are churning out, RCOM may definitley not be inclined to take up 3G in both CDMA as well as GSM. Roughly at about 4k Crores per licence, this will cost them 8k crores if they indeed offer 3G for both technologies.

These are only my views, maybe I am wrong. In no way, I am against allowing foreign ESNs and I have also voted in favour of Foreign ESNs. Lets try and see if our unity tastes success yet another time.

[Sadikk 301]

Kuch nahi yaar, kisi stupid ne plan kiya hoga ye RSN ka chakkar.

I am sure when reliance see how High ARPU this foreign handsets could be, they will open their system for it.

In corporate world no one think out of the box, they keep busy what they are doing thats it.

I am sure they will come up with this only when they see HIGH ARPU in it.

for example - if person is spending 10k on 6275 and same price for some other HTC PPC. he will sure try R-connect and outlook mails,

If he wants R-world he can surf that also.

This way he is using all the services of reliance.

Koi samjhao inko. ya phir meri meeting rakha do S P Shukla se ya Direct ADA se ill get it done. I can think of going through Amar singh way also

[ACS 130]

I was just thinking why CDMA operators across the globe are reluctant to accept foreign handsets, I could figure out following reasons, may be I am wrong.

2. In CDMA handset cloning is very easy. Infact, easiest. In GSM SIM Ver-2 is almost impossible to clone, where as in CDMA, I am sure, its very easy to clone handset. Thats why, perhaps reliance adopted RSN policy. So that cloning is difficult and Tata adopted unique MIN number as handset changes.

4. May be they want to earn from RWORLD contents, hence they are tightly controlling foreign handsets.

The above points are to be noted..

I do not know much about cloning but yes, they sure do make a lot of moolah by having the R-World thing.

In my Company itself, we keep seeing a lot of bollywood/wallpaper downloads in bills.

How else will they make money? With competitive tariffs? No.

My another question was, are they scared that these foreign handsets may interfere with the billing in any way?

As they are hacked into, could they prevent billing perhaps?

[HetalDP 947]

hum Too many Interested Poeple for this kinda Project

Now Please Start EMailing them and Update your Copy Here for Ready made Content for other Users.

[dkaile 1,051]

Sorry, hetal bhai, was extremely busy...

will try and draft a letter this week... and post on forum....

[HetalDP 947]

Dear Mrs. Patel,

This is with reference to your email received at Corporate Centre Customer Care.

We would like to inform you that currently the facility to avail the services on handset brought from abroad is not available. Hence, we are unable to process your request.

However, we thank you for your valuable feedback. We have noted the same and it will be reviewed by our Product Team.

Thank you for being associated with us and we look forward for opportunities to serve you better.

Warm Regards,

Zahid Ansari

Corporate Center

Reliance Communications Ltd.

[dkaile 1,051]

^^^^

Its Mrs. Patel right???

Anyways, kindly give me the email links and addresses to whom we have to send this mail....

[raju_a 31]

Hi Guys !!

I strongly support the move by the members for supporting foreign ESN. But as far as i think, according to TRAI service provider cannot force the consumer to buy handsets from them. As they are only suppose to provide connections and not sell phones. Has anyone tried complaining to TRAI.

Regards

Raju

[kshah 452]

Hi Guys !!

I strongly support the move by the members for supporting foreign ESN. But as far as i think, according to TRAI service provider cannot force the consumer to buy handsets from them. As they are only suppose to provide connections and not sell phones. Has anyone tried complaining to TRAI.

Regards

Raju

Probably CDMA operators has different conditions, they have to provide handsets too. AFAIK

[raju_a 31]

Hi KShah,

As per trai they cannot force us to use the handset they sell. Coz i remember after their launch there was a big hue and cry about bundling of high cost handset. They then as per the directive of the regulator had to provide activation for other handset. If u remember they had provided seperate plan for that.

But for that to happen someone has to raise their voice and complain to TRAI. I guess all of us should get together and make a complaint.

regards

Raju

Hi Guys !!

I strongly support the move by the members for supporting foreign ESN. But as far as i think, according to TRAI service provider cannot force the consumer to buy handsets from them. As they are only suppose to provide connections and not sell phones. Has anyone tried complaining to TRAI.

Regards

Raju

Probably CDMA operators has different conditions, they have to provide handsets too. AFAIK

[vishalsheth 19]

Hey Hetal,

Do you remember last time you mailed to have mogul activated? I did revisit the mail and learnt that Reliance has the esn in their database. The cutomercare people lies saying that info is not available.

So I guess they can easily activate, but they want to loot people and not allow.

[dkaile 1,051]

Message sent to-

customercare@relianceada.com, trai@trai.gov.in, trai@del2.vsnl.net.in, rworld.feedback@relianceinfo.com, serviceassurancecell@relianceada.com, Rcomnodalofficer.MH@relianceada.com, Rcomnodalofficer.GJ@relianceada.com, Rcomappellateauthority.GJ@relianceada.com, Rcomappellateauthority.MH@relianceada.com, sidbehura@yahoo.co.in, piyush.t.tyagi@relianceada.com, "Bhumika_Tanna@relianceada.com" <Bhumika_Tanna@relianceada.com>, "Bhumika.Tanna@relianceada.com" <Bhumika.Tanna@relianceada.com>, Chandolia.1960@hotmail.com,

a.achary@nic.in

BY HAND/COURIER/E-MAIL

Dated 15.10.2008

To,

Mr. PIYUSH TYAGI (Retention Co-ordinator),

Reliance Communications,

301, Mangal Pandey Nagar, University Road,

Meerut – 250 001 (U.P.)

Fax: 0121-3031001 Mobile-9358055599 e-mail: piyush.t.tyagi@relianceada.com

Reg : Foreign Esn Handset In Reliance, Request to RCom to Allow this Officially

Dear Sir,

We have got the following 23 Connections with your Company which we have converted into Prepaid from Post paid in the Month of February'08 whose numbers are as follows: xxxx & my personal number xxxxxxxxxx.

I would request Reliance to Start Allowing all Customer to enable Foreign ESN / MEID Based Handsets. As it is a monopolistic policy of Reliance to disallow users to choose their own make and quality of Handsets unlike their GSM counterparts. In fact if Reliance does this like TATA is allowing, it will lead to greater Customer Confidence and boost the image of Reliance as a transparent and customer conscious company. Now many CDMA 1X handsets are available in the USA and other countries which we are unable to use due to this restrictive policy.

What Reliance should Expect from Customer who Owns the Handset

* The Customer must know the SPC of Phone or it should be 000000.

* It will not Resposibility of Reliance for Activation Failure.

* Reliance will not be Obliged to Activate R-World on it.

* If Handset is lost Reliance will not Bar the Phone ESN as it Already Unknown to their Database.

* Reliance may ask for Memo, Bill, Credit Card Statement to get proof of the Ownership of Phone.

* If Such Document is not available then Reliance may ask Client to Indemnify Reliance for any Further Legal complication may arise if the Phone is lost, stolen or misused etc.

* Reliance may Keep a Separate Database for such Clients for their own Purpose.

I think in the long run it will generate more revenues. So I request Reliance to give up this monopolistic attitude in the Interest of the Customers and immediately allow Outside Handsets on their network.

We hope you will take this letter most seriously. Awaiting your immediate reply in this matter.

Yours faithfully,

For xxxxx

DHIRAJ KAILE xxxxx