Issues with RIM Ethics !

hovs · February 23, 2004

:rolleyes: There have been several unresolved matters between me and the reliance infocom.

a) I have requested them to let me know about the tariff for the month of march 2003 when the agents were telling that all calls were free. I wrote to them on 4th march and they replied that the calls are "absolutely free" on 21st March 2003. However they have billed me for more than 450 rupees. There is no response from them for all these months

:clap1: Like wise I wrote in the beginning of April 2003 and recd a mail during the end of April specifying certain charges by other operators. Again they have sent me a bill at rates which are at variance from their own email. As expected there is no explanation.

c) they have charged me for calls which were not recd by the called party. I came to know about only by seeing the calls from the residence to the GSM Mobile which I disconnected. The Webworld executive said that he can waive the bill by a flat 10% and nothing more because he is not authorised more than that. This was at the main Office in Hyderabad. The one near my residence shook their head and said that they "cannot handle the case".

d) The duration of the call starts from the moment the call connect alert is heard on the handset irrespective of the fact that the called party can respond even after 10-15 seconds. Infact you don't get to hear the ringing sound of the called phone till atleast a few seconds elapse from the call connect alert. So typically all calls are inflated by a minimum of 15 seconds which may increase if the called party takes some time to answer. Even unmatured calls account for the 400 minutes in the DAPO.

e) They have realised my cheque for the quarter Feb-April in late Jan but disconnected my service without resolving the dispute as I have been requesting them to fix me an appointment with one of their senior executives who does does not have the 10% limitation. Even the so called free SMS facility is withdrawn.

f)Finally as per the POF1 scheme I am entitled to 400 minutes of outgoing calls and not a credit of 40 paisa per minute as they are now doing. What legal authority do they have in mandating a customer to use their service for the specified 400 minutes just to get back the money paid to the company in advance that too for a quarter?

Under these circumstances, can somebody please let me know if instructing the bank to stop payment of the unencahed post dated cheques casues trouble?

hovs · February 23, 2004

In addition all the promises of "CALL NATIONAL PAY LOCAL" and "15 second pulse rate" have gone with the wind. It appears from the TRAI's Press release that the operators started filing their plans from March 10th 2003 whereas they have mislead the gullible customers into the trap by making all those tall and false claims. In terms of the Indian Contract Act, it appears that this is a clear case of "mis-representation" and "fraud".

Chirag · February 24, 2004

oops.. i'll have to do an extensive SEARCH archive thing to get u all the answers to wht u r looking for, coz we've discussed all these issues at the forum already... Let me give it a try... but its just a try, or u'll have to go navigating urself thru the forum :rolleyes: i am sure, u'll find many more of ur questions answered there..

I have requested them to let me know about the tariff for the month of march 2003 when the agents were telling that all calls were free. I wrote to them on 4th march and they replied that the calls are "absolutely free" on 21st March 2003. However they have billed me for more than 450 rupees.

All these charges were enforced on Reliance by other operators as directed by TRAI. And hence these interconnect charges were calculated from March onwards for all calls and passed onto the customer... something of tht sort.. I dont rem the details now distinctly. But a frnd of mine explained to me in detail abt all this... Anyways, i also got one bill, in which they stated at the bottom of the first bill, tht Reliance would start giving 40% discount on all those money charged before 1st May 2003 in the subsequent bills as credits... Go look out for ur June July Aug bills.. its there at the bottom. I dont keep my bills at home... so maybe i'll get u this laters...

The Webworld executive said that he can waive the bill by a flat 10% and nothing more because he is not authorised more than that.

This is like getting the bill settled.. All members shud take note of this, tht such things are possible :lol:

The duration of the call starts from the moment the call connect alert is heard on the handset irrespective of the fact that the called party can respond even after 10-15 seconds. Infact you don't get to hear the ringing sound of the called phone till atleast a few seconds elapse from the call connect alert. So typically all calls are inflated by a minimum of 15 seconds which may increase if the called party takes some time to answer. Even unmatured calls account for the 400 minutes in the DAPO.

Check this thread for more answers onto this.... or u can read this or this infact there are tonnes of posts onto the forum where this issue has been discussed and proved as something really stupid for us to think now..

Even the so called free SMS facility is withdrawn

Who said DAPO users dont have free SMS as yet?? or do u mean, Budget plan users??

Finally as per the POF1 scheme I am entitled to 400 minutes of outgoing calls and not a credit of 40 paisa per minute as they are now doing. What legal authority do they have in mandating a customer to use their service for the specified 400 minutes just to get back the money paid to the company in advance that too for a quarter?

Absolutely every legal authority to change anything without prior notifications. Though they have to inform thru relevant media channels.. and they have been doin so consistently thru their website. Check out the media page

Under these circumstances, can somebody please let me know if instructing the bank to stop payment of the unencahed post dated cheques casues trouble?

i think at this point in time if u r out there to dc ur DAPO connection, u'd be considered a fool !! Am ready to look out a buyer for ur DAPO connection, coz i am sure, he'll be blessed to get one which has free SMS and the lowest call rates in the World!!!!

hovs · February 24, 2004

I would be ever grateful to you if you can find a willing scapegoat in my place for this silly issue of a couple of thousands that seems to have made me partially insane

hovs · February 24, 2004

As seen in one of the earlier replies the press release by reliance is only a piece of information on the reported international practice. I swear that I have been billed for calls made from the RIM (at Residence) to my GSM mobile. If things go as per standards, what was the need for them to make the DAPO offer before filing the same with the TRAI and without obtaining prior approval and before making prior inter-connect arrangements. I am also in possession of information about an employee (looking after despatch in a factory) got a bill for calls he made to the mobile phones of the transport agencies apart from so many other friends making a similar complaint on this matter. None of us are so foolish to say that they have billed for calls made

Chirag · February 25, 2004

As seen in one of the earlier replies the press release by reliance is only a piece of information on the reported international practice. I swear that I have been billed for calls made from the RIM (at Residence) to my GSM mobile. If things go as per standards, what was the need for them to make the DAPO offer before filing the same with the TRAI and without obtaining prior approval and before making prior inter-connect arrangements.

Well the TRAI themselves hadn't really come out with any interconnect agreements initially!! They came up wid tht in May and hence all operators reworked out their tariffs, and hence all these changes in the call rates.

And if u rem, the interconnect charges were decided in May, but all the operators were asked by TRAI to implement IUC to fwd these charges to their customers from March or April bills also, and hence these charges were simply passed onto us in our bills...

And it was only becoz GSM operators lobbied like hell to get their incoming calls free to attract more customers and introduce the CALLING PARTY PAYS regime in the telecom industry! Otherwise all of us, wud have had 40p/ min for any Local call thru RIM.

hovs, there are so many things that ppl dont really know abt, which go on in the backdoors, for which many ppl have been blaming Reliance for it....

None of us, are working for Reliance and trying to shield them. if u read all our posts at the forum, we've equally accused reliance for its biling probs etc. But there are certain things we knw for sure, are not really mistakes of reliance...

Chirag · February 25, 2004

I would be ever grateful to you if you can find a willing scapegoat in my place for this silly issue of a couple of thousands that seems to have made me partially insane

put the details in the buying/selling forum, with all relevant details reqd.

Buy/Sell you phone connection

Edited March 4, 2004 by Ashokjp

niket · February 25, 2004

As seen in one of the earlier replies the press release by reliance is only a piece of information on the reported international practice. I swear that I have been billed for calls made from the RIM (at Residence) to my GSM mobile. If things go as per standards, what was the need for them to make the DAPO offer before filing the same with the TRAI and without obtaining prior approval and before making prior inter-connect arrangements. I am also in possession of information about an employee (looking after despatch in a factory) got a bill for calls he made to the mobile phones of the transport agencies apart from so many other friends making a similar complaint on this matter. None of us are so foolish to say that they have billed for calls not answered

Ok, Hovs clarified yourself.

1) First Reliance said they will go commercial in April. but as chirag said CALLING PARTY PAYS regime they decided to go commercial in MAY.

2) They First said that all local calls should be free until April. but above incidents happened and they said "All local call are free and calls made to CITY where reliance started the service in the circle also free BUT for month of April calls made to GSM operator are not free".

U r charged for RIM to GSM then then i am sure these calls are made in April , 2003 . and funny things is that RIM to GSM are started in April. so from first call to GSM is not free..... GOT IT.

All these type of incidents happens because users don't even bother to ask?

U r not accept that u missed thing but u want to become out by just BLAMMING .

hovs · February 25, 2004

I am sorry Niket that you just concluded something without knowing the facts. If you have read my first post completely, you would not have said. For the purpose of clarification, I want you to know that I took the connection on March 3rd evening. I wrote them an email on the following day asking if the calls were indeed free as there was no written communication - atleast to my knowledge. They have replied that the calls are absolutely free sometime during the end of march. I can send / forward you the correspondence if you still disbeleive.

I can also forward you the press release of TRAI which to my understanding means that the regime is effective from 1st May 2003.

Section II
2.1 In clause 4 under Section IV of The Telecommunication Interconnection Usage Charges (IUC) Regulation, 2003, sub-clause (iv)shall be deleted and substituted by the following:

“(iv) The date of effect for actual implementation of IUC shall be 1st May, 2003.

So I am not sure as to why they have now collected Offnet charges or whatever other heading.

I am sure that the company has misrepresented facts - obviously willfully - when it has concealed the fact that they have not even filed the tariff plan before TRAI as on the date of their making the offer and precisely the date on which they have given me the application. Again I produce the following quote

Annexure– A
EXPLANATORY MEMORANDUM

1. The IUC Regulation issued on 24.1.2003 had initially envisaged the implementation of the IUC regime by 1.4.2003. Service Providers were thus to file tariff plans in consonance with 24th Amendment to TTO in conformity with IUC Regulation as well.

2. The various proposed alternative tariff plans have been received from service providers during the period 10th to 24th of March, 2003 and need detailed consideration / revision. These have been communicated to the service providers concerned and they have been required to file tariff plans in consonance with the IUC regime to the Authority complying with the provisions of the 24th Amendment to the TTO. In addition to the above, the fact that consumers need to be informed on the choices available pursuant to the contours of the Standard Tariff Plan outlined in 24th Amendment to TTO and the consequent alternative tariff plans, the Authority felt that it would be in the interests of the consumers that end users are informed well in advance about the various plans by different service providers, for which all tariff plans should be filed with the Authority by 03.04.2003 to be implemented by 01.05.2003.

Are you sure that a company as wise as reliance will offer a discount without having committed some thing wrong. I am also in possession of a communication from Reliance (to another corporate customer) acknowledgeing that they have made a mistake in billing in respect of certain calls

I am a govt servant myself and I do interpret much more complex laws. I am still unsure as to how they can force me to make me commit for higher usage charges just to get back the money already paid to them and I am searching the small fine print if there is something to that effect.

:rolleyes: I would be glad to know if someone can show me the precise term or condition where the customer agrees to pay more than the agreed 600 rs per month for calls not exceeding 400 minutes per month.

niket · February 25, 2004

Hovs,

See your bill of March,2003 and April,2003 they clearly mention that what charges applies and what not for those months. What i told u is from that bill reckoner.

What happens mostly is people only give importance to "FREE" word and they talk unlimited and when Bill comes they come in action. So never take "FREE" word easy.. first know what is Free and whats NOT, before use that free thing.

There is "No Free lunch" in this world.

If u really know the LAW and mean that reliance is cheated u then pls file a FIR against them and give all the details here..

so, Whatever step u take inform us about that.

hovs · February 25, 2004

Thank you for the reply Niket. I was hurt that

All these type of incidents happens because users don't even bother to ask?
U r not accept that u missed thing but u want to become out by just BLAMMING .

. The matter is over a sum which is much less than the heartburn I am enduring to see that a company as big as Reliance (I had the highest regard to late Sri Dhirubai) because they have made name for the country maybe by twisting a couple of laws here and there and perhaps some political manipulations. All successful companies should be doing it now. I will never complain against somebody as long as the deal is transparent. Don't we pay several times more than the cost of pizza or burger when we eat at a good restaurant.

I am reproducing the mail below

We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for showing interest in
Reliance IndiaMobile.

With reference to your queries:

On the off-net operator charges, we would like to inform you that when

you make a call to another operator's phone, you need to pay an

additional charge called 'off-net operator charge'/ 'interconnect

charge', which is the amount charged by the other operator, for use of

their network.

With Reliance IndiaMobile, local calls to landlines and GSM phones are

absolutely free up to 31st March 2003. For local calls to landlines,

there will be additional off-net operator charges from April 1 onwards,

and there will be a charge of 50 paise per minute in metros and 60 paise

per minute in non-metros.

For local calls to GSM phones, the off-net operator charges are expected

to become 30 paise per minute for metros and 40 paise per minute for

non-metros.

Please find attached the details of Additional Off-net Operator Charges:

(See attached file: Attachment for off-net Templates.xls)

On Service Tax: Please note that the Service Tax will be levied as per

the government regulation. The prevailing rate of Service Tax is 5% on

the monthly rental and usage charge (i.e. Rs. 400) + any additional

charges applicable.

We hope that we have been able to provide you with relevant information.

For more details, you are requested to visit our website

www.relianceinfo.com or write to us at customercare@relianceinfo.com

Thanking you.

Best Regards.

Customer Care

Reliance Infocomm

The information provided is based on prevailing terms and conditions of the

company, which, are subject to change without prior notice.

This electronic message transmission contains information from Reliance

Infocomm & is confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be

for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the

intended recipient, beware that any disclosure, copy distribution or use of

the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received the

electronic transmission in error please notify us immediately.

On March 4 2003 at 22:11:16 GMT+05:30 Sastry <hovs@rediffmail.com> wrote:

> Sir,

> I request you to clarify the following points at the earliest.

>

> a)Tarriff for calls made (within AP) to non Reliance phones.

>

> Charges during the month of March to Reliance and non Reliance

> phones (BSNL and cellular phones) within AP. I am told that it is

> free by the agents but not mentioned anywhere in writing.

>

> c)Adress where I can buy the chord for connecting to the net in

> Hyderabad.

>

> d) Access charges for Rworld.

>

> e) Finally, whether the 600 rupees per month includes service

> tax.

> Yours truly,

> sastry

>

>

>

I do not know how to display the excell worksheet they have sent along with the above reply, but if you beleive me it clearly states that local calls to all types of phones and intra-circle calls for RIM and other landline phones cost me zero. I will quote another sample of their reply

Dear Mr. Sastry
We thank you for your mail and sorry for the delay in responding to you.

With reference to your query on fifteen seconds pulse rate, we wish to

clarify that the pulse rate applicable for calls are dependent upon the

pulse rate applicable for reconciliation of interconnects charges with the

terminating operator. e.g. If a Reliance India Mobile subscriber makes a

call to any other Cellular Operator in the same city, for such call

Reliance has to pay to other Operator Interconnect usage charge. While

paying this charge to other Operator, the charges are paid on per minute

basis (i.e. 60 sec) and not on 15 sec basis. Earlier Reliance had declared

a pulse rate of 15 sec for call charges. To counter this offer, all the

other cellular operators had demanded interconnection at 60 sec pulse rate.

Effectively, Reliance could not give a pulse rate of 15 sec for calls

terminating on other than Reliance network. TRAI vide press release dated

30th April 2003 mandated all service providers to withdraw the tariff

packages which are discriminatory i.e. tariffs which discriminate between

operators within the same class of service in terms of pulse duration or

pulse charge. In compliance with TRAI directive Reliance is offering 60 Sec

pulse rate for all calls including Reliance India Mobile to Reliance India

Mobile calls. As IUC came into effect from May'03, the promise of 15sec. pulse by sales representative (in March) also is not valid.

On the subject of tariff, we would like to inform you that our services are

charged competitively and we plan to improve it continuously.

On the subject of R-world services, we are glad to inform you that the free

usage period of R-world has been extended to 30th Sep 2003.

With reference to your query on Circle, Circles are defined by telecom

regulations. A circle typically covers the full state and in some cases

even neighbouring state (for example Maharashtra and Goa in one circle just

as Jharkhand and Bihar, MP and Chattisgarh, West UP and Uttaranchal). The

exception is UP, which is divided into 2 telecom circles, West UP and East

UP. When calls are made within one circle, they are called intra-circle and

when   calls are made to places outside a circle, they are called

inter-circle calls.

On the subject of R-connect speed, R Connect is a shared resource service;

the speed will depend on a variety of factors, including the number of

voice and data users in your area, and signal strength available at the

time of connection and the site you are visiting.

Your actual speed can theoretically be as high as 144kbps, but in most

real-world situations, you can expect average speeds of 20-40kbps.

While we cannot guarantee a minimum service speed, we have invested in

superior high-speed wireless technology and high-bandwidth access to the

Internet to ensure completely satisfactory and problem free service from

our side

If you are a user of our R Connect Services, I hope you have enjoyed the

experience of high-speed wireless Internet access offered on our Network

We want to reiterate that Reliance is committed to protect the interests of

its millions of customers and take all necessary actions in this regard.

Best Regards.

Geeta Singh

Chairman's Office

Reliance Infocomm

The information provided is based on prevailing terms and conditions of the

company, which, are subject to change without prior notice.

This electronic message transmission contains information from Reliance

Infocomm & is confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be

for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the

intended recipient, beware that any disclosure, copy distribution or use of

the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received the

electronic transmission in error please notify us immediately.

   hovs@rediffmail.c

   om    To:    mda@ril.com

cc:

   16/08/2003 11:45    Subject: Response received in Contact our Chairman:www.relianceinfo.com

   PM    Importance: Normal Sender's OU: Reliance |------------------|

| [ ] Confidential |

|------------------|



Contact Our Chairman-Reliance Infocomm

Message :

   Respected Sir, I have

chosen the service

because, i) you have

advertised 15 second

pulse rate. ii) Assured

availability of 400

minutes (1600 calls) for

a fixed cost included in

the monthly post dated

cheque of Rs 600/- iii)

Free R-world

subscription. iv) The

definition of circle v)

High speed data

connectivity and so many

other things. vi) STD

calls ( meaning those

which require prefix of

STD code in BSNL phones)

will be cheaper than

BSNL etc. IN SHORT I

REQUEST YOU TO HONOR THE

CONTRACT AND ALLOW ME

400 MINUTES OF OUTGOING

CALLS AND RESTORE ALL

OTHER FEATURES PROMISED

OR GIVE BACK ALL THE

MONEY COLLECTED BY YOU

LESS THE CHARGES FOR

SERVICES AVAILED BY ME

FROM MAY 1ST 2003.

OFCOURSE , I WILL RETURN

THE HANDSET. I WOULD BE

VERY GREATFUL IF YOU

WILL DO THE NEEDFUL AT

THE EARLIEST. Yours

sincerely, H V S Sastry

(Most unfortunate DAPO

Subscriber)

You can also see that they have themselves said that the IUC regime is wef 1.5.3.

I hope you are convinced about why I feel so desperate. Like everybody, I feel disgusted when you are cheated. Cheating happens almost every moment from the tampered auto meters to hiked porter charges to exhorbitant greed of petty vendors. I have learnt to live with them as most of them are struggling hard to meet their both ends meet. But it cannot happen with a company like Reliance.

I have pondered over your advice in the very beginning of this messy episode. But I don't have the resources to fight someone like reliance. I am sure that I cannot win against them given their clout. I do not know about your state, but in Hyderabad and AP there have been several media reports where respectable people have aired their grievances.

If you are wondering as to why I am putting in so many efforts when I say that I cannot fight them, the reason is very simple. They might have duped me by a couple of thousands and that is the maximum that they can do. But I have inflicted a much greater damage on them by canvassing against the company by making people who come into contact with me and educating them into taking a wise decision. I also know that they can absorb this loss with ease. But for the crime they are committing no court would give them a bigger punishment.

My pain probably reflects the cost of justice and the poor state of consumer activism in our country.

Chirag · February 26, 2004

well hovs, i have read both ur posts above entirely...

do u mean to say, that since "The date of effect for actual implementation of IUC shall be 1st May, 2003" was added as a new clause in the IUC Law... that all dapo users should have been returned the money that they were charged for calls before 1.5.03 ??

Is that wht u mean by the entire discussion above?

hovs · February 26, 2004

Precisely. That is what I understand from it. And the more crucial point -if the TRAI press relaease is to be beleived - is that Reliance have wilfully misled the customers stating some offer knowing fully well that they have not even applied for it before the TRAI.

You can also see from their scond reply that they simply say "Reliance has offered 15 second pulse Rate" at one point and in the following lines they simply say that the promise made by the sales repe is not valid as if to make you feel that the sales personnel have mislead you and not the company. I have the publicity material with me which clearly states the 15 second pulse rate. Does it not show how untrustworthy they are?

I have another email in end of April 2003 for my query in the beginning of that month showing certain tariffs pertaining to inter-connect charges which has been flouted yet again.

Finally, I am still ignorant of the authority they have and the condition which gives them such authority to force me make calls for 400 minutes and pay what ever charges become leviable including those which are totally false like those relating the charges shown for incoming calls recd outside home location. I have never moved the handset beyond a 100m radius from their tower in Hyderabad and still they simply state that I have gone to an area outside my SDCA. Assuming that I have indeed gone, did the company send any communication atleast an sms on the mobile that incoming calls are chargeable.

niket · February 26, 2004

Hovs,

Publicity material is not proof, In all publicity material they clearly mentioned this is offer is only valid if TRAI approve.. and as we all know TRAI didn't approved that.

U did great effort to read all IUC regime.. and E-mail to RIL and Posting here

If u did all this type of effort before purchase the phone.. then i think u may be in better position today.

if u really want to do something then

it is better if u file case in court. do some concrete job.!! it better than talking endlessly here.

Chirag · February 26, 2004

Naah Niket,

Wht Hovs said, did make sense to some extent....

but hovs, at the end of everything, when u say that u r liable to get 400 mins completely free and not pay anything additional... and if u read all the offer documents and the contract tht the customer signs on and agree with the terms, i am damn sure, that Reliance wud have a clause where they have a right to change or withdraw the offer at any point in time and terminate the contract or something of that sort... And hence they have coolly gone ahead and done all this.

Moreover, since they launched their service on 28th Dec, then, TRAI i guess had approved their 15 secs pulse and even the 40p/ min thing... do u rem, that Reliance had actually applied for 40p/ 3 mins and TRAI didn't approve of that saying that it wud crash the entire market and it was actually trying to protect state owned companies. So it made reliance change the tariff to 40p/min and allowed it a 15 sec pulse.... and hence those advts of 10p/15secs were put up all over..

Later after the IUC, i learnt that since most operators made 60 sec pulse mandatory for their offnet incoming charges, Reliance had to forcibly make it 60 sec pulse... Now in all this, I am not sure how TATA manages to have 15 sec pulse and still pays the other operator for 60 secs!!

As far as ur SDCA prob stands... u can demand transcripts frm them to be produced to u, for verifying that those calls were made by u outside the SDCA.. till then, u dont pay for all those calls, deduct tht amount and keep paying ...

Let them explain to u, how did they charge u for those calls, and if they can exactly produce transcripts of those calls and which Tower of theirs caught that call of urs... u have all the right to move the consumer court for this atleast and make them do al this.. I've heard that its not tht difficult to do that ... and some local NGOs wud surely help u in this...

Write back to us more on this... And as Niket said, make their life worse now by moving the court and get some result out of this, rather than u getting more and more frustrated abt it... simple!

hovs · February 26, 2004

Thank you Chirag. I was expecting this kind of moral support more than anything else. I reproduce some more correspondence.

I have earlier sought a specific clarification from you on this subject for
which there had been no reply despite a lapse of several weeks. I

specifically request you to explain as to how I have been charged Rs 120.40

and 172.80 for 329 calls and 311 calls respectively (I still swear that I

have not made so many calls and the inflated number shown in the bill is on

account of the fact that the connection goes into "dormancy" even while I

do not disconnect). The billing is obviously wrong as can be seen from the

simple fact that the bill for 329 calls works out to Rs 131.60 when

calculated at the rate of 40 paisa per minute whereas you have shown it as

120.40. (Pl refer to the November's bill).

I also regret to note that I have not received any response from you on the

second new irregularity pointed out about the charge of Rs 34.80 towards

charges on "STD Calls received outside home location" when the fact remains

that the handset never left my residence.

I have also not heard anything from you on my request for fixing up an

appointment with a responsible and senior representative so that I can

resolve the matter once for all as I really hate to receive reminders about

my pending bills when the mistake is totally attributable to you.

The shocking reply is

With reference to your mail regarding R-connect monthly charges reflecting
in your bill, please note that we have already replied in the mail sent to

you on 20th January 2004 and would reiterate the same.

With reference to your issue regarding call charges reflecting in your

bill, we would like to inform you that you may have not gone to proper

Warangal but the area around it, which falls under Warangal SDCA, and thus

the calls have been charged perfectly according to the tariff plan chosen

by you.

I request all of you to examine the way the R-Connect bill has been issued where the tariff is fortunately uncomplicated and still they have charged me more for lesser calls and less for higher calls. Assuming the scenario that all the R-connect charges pertain to calls after the lapse of first 400 minutes, the maximum bill can be only 121.40 (311 * 0.40) whereas they are bluntly stating that i have been perfectly charged.

I don't mind spending money - even if it is more than the disputed bill itself - but what is the outcome assuming that I win. And what is the cost paid by me in terms of the mental agony and the valuable time lost in litigation.

Their reply which I have posted last is very clearly covered under

"misrepresentation" in the Indian Contract Act. I am very sure of winning and in all likelihood I will.

Chirag · February 26, 2004

As i said hovs, enuf of corresponding thru mails.... Thts absolutely nonsensical now...

Just go ahead to the nearest Webworld. Clarify all this once and for all and get it straight... Once things dont work out there, go to the consumer forum and get it done that ways... y wait?? for whom?? just go ahead, u've got all the things on hand. Enuf of material now.. i hope u understand wht i mean. Fighting a case in a consumer court doesn't require any lawyer or something i guess... u need to be a consumer thts it...

And their SDCA explanation is absolutely ridiculous... fight for that too... I wish i was in hyd, i wud have screwed their balls too..

Keep us updated on this...

hovs · March 1, 2004

Hovs,
Publicity material is not proof, In all publicity material they clearly mentioned this is offer is only valid if TRAI approve.. and as we all know TRAI didn't approved that.

U did great effort to read all IUC regime.. and E-mail to RIL and Posting here

If u did all this type of effort before purchase the phone.. then i think u may be in better position today.

if u really want to do something then

it is better if u file case in court. do some concrete job.!! it better than talking endlessly here.

I am sorry if my posts or replies offend you or are not as per your taste. But the simple fact of all my efforts is to ensure that atleast one potential customer of reliance is becomes aware of my posts and therefore makes a knowledgeable decision. As far as going to court is concerned, it is very much an option and I will decide on excersing that option at the appropriate time.

Chirag · March 1, 2004

On 26th feb 2004, my unbill info was 153 as I have sent it to their office just to confirm if it is the same as my phone had been "temporarily suspended" from the early beginning of the month. Today it show -180. I am not able to make out how it is possible.

well hovs,

i've seen ur bills, unbill info etc... and i can tell u clearly that ur usage is tremendous! u dont have an option of leaving Rel, that too DAPO under such circumstances...

as far ur unbill info thing is concerned that it shows negative suddenly, this is possible if there are some amounts that they have now deducted(which might have been charged earlier) from ur bills... So u got to wait till u get ur new bill..

one more thing, ur phone is bound to get disconnected soon, coz u've not paid quite some amt now and for quite some time... Its high time u resolve ur matter with them. Its not goin to work, if u just want to create awareness, tht theres something wrong in the entire thing. Somewhere someone has to start it... so go ahead and fight if u want to... But the bottom line is that u r arguing the entire matter over something tht i feel u shudn't really be doin on.... thts my personal opinon... u can go ahead with wht ever u want to...

hovs · March 1, 2004

Thanks for the advice chirag. they have disconnected once and re-connected last year. It has been disconnected since the beginning of feb this year. They have reconnected last sunday after I made some payment when they rectified some of the mistakes that I have been writing. They gave a 10% discount on the total outstanding bill.

hovs · March 3, 2004

I regret that some of you opine that my posts are not written with balance. I do not where you find me criticising the company without factual data. I bought the cable almost in the first or second week of the availability of the data cable. This had been my experience and I am not writing this today. I have corresponded witht the company already and they have not denied my contentions. I have just compared the tariff. nothing more. It is my personal experience that i mentioned. I have every reason and right to criticise constructively. The tarif or my disputed bill with the company is not the issue. The core issue is why should you attempt to mislead the public. I would request all of you to enlighten me on the following:

a) Why did the company not mention that they have not even filed the tariff plans before TRAI when they were getting customers sign the doc.

:rolleyes: I don't know if u recall their call national pay local slogan, 15sec/10paisa pulse rate etc. Do you consider it ethical business to publicise something knowing fully well that they cannot be fulfilled.

c) Did TRAI approve of the three year lock in scheme as of today. Its website never mentions it and the Reliance is silent despite repeatedly reminded.

d) Which clause in the application authorises the company to force the subscriber to use their service for 400 minutes just to get back your own advance money. Am I not entitled to limit myself to 160 rupees worth time however less it may be.

e) Why did they charge us for March 2003 against the tariff sent by their customer care. (Pl se the attachment)

f) If the instrument goes into "dormancy" for no fault of mine, why should I pay an inflated bill.

g) They have billed me and several others in Hyderabad for calls recd outside home location. Notwithstanding the fact that the instrument did not leave the heart of the SDCA, I fail to understand as to why they gave that chargeable service without my asking for it.

I make one thing very clear, I am not criticising Reliance or canvassing for BSNL. I have no interest in either of the undertakings. And it is also not for the part of the bill which I dispute. Infact the company has reduced the bill by 10% and it covers a significant part of what I had been disputing.

I also read about the post by reliance=chor post and the sarcastic replies thereto. There is no way I can support an individual who does not pay up a bill he owes (He has not disputed in the post atleast ). The point I am trying to make is that there is a method and order established by law. The proper course will be to file a civil suit before a competent court and recover the money due along with the interest and cost. Merely because one party to the unsettled bill feels that they have the might to recover and direct the collection agents to recover by unlawful means, are we not going back to the past jungle raj(with due respect to animals).

In several cases posted on the forum bills have not been recd. If the company asks all of them to pay interest on the dues should we pay. Pl note that the terms and conditions which we have signed, states something to the effect that communication by email, sms etc are deemed to be communications. Can they now simply say that we have sent an sms to the mobile or that u could have cheked up from R-world etc and recover the interest due

I have no intention of posting to a forum where a judgement is made without any basis. I offer to get out of this forum even if 2% of the existing members find my post unbalanced or otherwise deficient.

hovs · March 3, 2004

The forum does not enable uploading the excel file. If someone is intersted, I can send to them by email. Or if the Admin permits, i will rename the file so that it can be uploaded. It can then be opened in excell.

Chirag · March 4, 2004

The above two posts have been moved here since they were posted in a wrong forum. I guess the new title says it all...

Moreover hovs, the issues that u r trying to fight it out here, are pretty much understandable. I too agree, to some extent, the company has tried to play some games with the customer mindset to reserve benefits for itself. If this is the case, someone has to make them realise of their mistakes. How else, other than a legal recourse would suit these issues the best??

u were to go ahead at an apt time, right? So which is ur apt time?? Now since the company has given u a 10% discount on ur outstanding dues, am sure u'll delay the process of resorting to Legal ways. Maybe thts their strategy... whoever talks more, give them discounts n slow them down...

niket · March 4, 2004

Well,

One has to remember that "No one as good as you think And no one as bad as you think". every single entity in this world has some Strong point and Weak points so reliance has,

Reliance rules in Data Services. no service provider give R-World like service if they are charge for R-world, I am sure may will agree to pay for that. Here hutch provides GPRS and people pay for that..

monthly Rs.100 + If they download Ring tone Rs. 7 per ring tone + Rs.10 for wall paper per download + Rs.35-100 for game download. i know may who pay for that. we are getting FREE.

Hovs,

your main problem is u get bill for month of march. at the same time we purchased a phone.

I bought a phone in Feb 2003 and i also got a bill for month of March and April. and that time i also heard that reliance is not charging us for this month. but i asked cust care and they said that "U will be charged for off-net charges if applicable" and remember that time reliance never Advt. that they are giving Free call now. that is said by sales agents. so i never made a call that is not needed. I am sure that time that RIM to RIM is free for now so I made a lots of call for that and i didn't received any Bill. so Never attracted by a word FREE.

And as far as false advertisement issue, every single company advt. like that their product is the best one. Is it a "Cola" or "Washing powder" everyone try to push in customer mind that their product is best.

At the time of May and June i am also the most unsatisfied customer. when I heard this...

1) started to 60 sec pulse.

2) 400 min free only RIM to RIM.

3) and 40p / min is now only RIM to RIM.

I also started to tell that Reliance=Chor. but when i calculated Other service providers charges and what I got free form reliance. after making all balance i found my self in + not in - . All three point i mention above is not direct control on reliance so all this happened.

One of my friend bought a Airtel connection 3 month back and that time Airtel people said that your call charges is XYZ and not change up to next six month. and by apply of new IUC he charges are increased. so what he will do now Is he started to tell that Airtel=chor. No that is not proper way.

:rolleyes:

hovs · March 4, 2004

Hello niket,

I am happy that I am understood more clearly. I agree with you in toto that I should pay whatever charges I have agreed to pay. I am aware that the handsets are simply marvellous and the features are pioneering genuinely. I am also aware that the tariff is the net result of several extraneous factors and the blame lies partly on the TRAI. My singular grouse is the same. You commit something in a legally enforceable doc and simply ignore it when not convenient. If they are so confident of their service and competetive tariffs, I fail to understand as to why they should have a lock in period. I think the most important reasons for many of the DAPO subscribers were the advantage of connectivity, mobility and low talktime cost. They are not available now. And still you are bound to get hooked on to them for three years. If the DAPO tariff is so attractive, why don't they leave you the option of going out without any loss.

Now coming to the tariff structure, I recall that Bajaj used to sell its RTZ motorcycle at a loss of more than 2 thousand rupees a piece when its price was 13000/- The strategy was simple, absorb the losses to capture the market. Fortunately they never devised a way to recover the loss or more possibly they never had the opportunity to do something like it. Reliance also seems to have gone by the same strategy but being more successful than all other Indian companies, is not absorbing the losses.

but i asked cust care and they said that "U will be charged for off-net charges if applicable" and remember that time reliance never Advt. that they are giving Free call now. that is said by sales agents

I did not go by the CC people or the sales agents. I have sent them a mail and recd a reply. And I sent the reply on the day following my getting the connection.

They are enforcing part of the contract which is useful or profitable for them and ignoring other parts of the contract. At one point in time, I went and discussed this matter with a very reputed and respected advocate on the idea of filing a Public Interest Litigation. That is the degree to which I am frustrated at being pushed to the wall

I am also happy that I have been got the advance member status.

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