xuketo 7 Report post Posted October 1, 2010 Loan said that in Canada, law enforcement agencies can intercept telephone calls, emails and text messages sent by BlackBerry smartphones after obtaining a warrant from the judge."My understanding is that India is seeking the same thing, and we believe RIM can arrive at a resolution on that basis," Loan said. source: Canadian minister exposes RIM's encryption lie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted October 4, 2010 Banning BlackBerry service will be counterproductive, says RIM BlackBerry manufacturers have suggested forming of a joint consultative forum comprising government, users and service providers for drawing up procedures to intercept services likes Enterprise Mail as banning the service would be “counterproductive.” In a letter to Cabinet Secretary K.M. Chandrasekhar, Canada-based Research In Motion (RIM), makers of BlackBerry, virtually refused to provide an intercepting technology for its BlackBerry Enterprise Server (BES) and said it had provided options to Law Enforcement Agencies (LEAs) within India’s existing techno-legal framework. The RIM said the BES service uses standard technology which was no different from any of the other encryption products used to provide Virtual Private Network on both wireless and wired networks. RIM said it also strongly believed that the concerns of LEA and the government can only be effectively addressed in a wider dialogue between government and industry. “Singling out products like BES in the present instance and imposing ban on such services would be futile and counterproductive,” Vice President of RIM Robert E. Crow said in the letter. The RIM said the ban would be futile as anyone who wanted to misuse of Internet encrypted technology would shift to any one of other numerous and freely available options. The step would be counterproductive because any ban or suspension of services like BES, which have played a key role in success of modern business, will affect information security and efficiency of both commercial and government organisations. Government has given a time of two months to BlackBerry for providing technology for intercepting its BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) service and BES. “As this issue impacts the Internet industry as a whole, we at RIM therefore earnestly request that a joint consultative forum, of Government, users and providers of encrypted services, be established for collectively engaging and assisting the Government to draw up procedures and process that will be adhered to across the board to address the concerns of LEA and the misuse of such technologies,” Mr. Crow said. The BlackBerry manufacturers claimed that the approach was necessary because the network operators and service providers do not have clear access to target information as the users have. “...as we understand it, many of these users also want the opportunity to directly engage with the Government to find solutions,” Mr. Crow said. source:: http://www.thehindu.com/business/companies/article812863.ece?homepage=true As expected RIM refuse to budge and continues to play game. As informed earlier to service providers it's important that Govt. bans all non-decipherable services like BES without any delay. It's important for Govt. to show that it means non-compromising enforcement and not stories/reasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KanagaDeepan 1,084 Report post Posted October 4, 2010 Hmmm.. BB is behaving ridiculously ... They respond to Arab countries, but we Indians were taken for granted... They should be BANNED, even if they agreed to bring new server to India in later stage... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raccoon 53 Report post Posted October 4, 2010 (edited) Good to know BB is not compromising the privacy of its users. Hope it does not budge... but I wonder where it will lead ultimately. Just because they have compromised users in other countries does not mean they should do it here. Look at it positively - maybe they are more concerned about privacy their Indian customers. Edited October 4, 2010 by raccoon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted October 4, 2010 Yeah we completely understand that RIM is concerned about its corporate customershooligans(read as Ambanis, Mittals, Birlas etc.,) who wants to launder money without allowing Govt. to eavesdrop into them and find their fudged figures. Yeah we understand for RIM privacy of these leeches are more important than national security(read as life of a common man). After all only these launders use and promote RIM handsets and certainly not the people who commute on sub-urban trains and buses to work for these thugs. Let us not put the life of the people at risk by quoting hypothetical privacy which never exists in the first place. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raccoon 53 Report post Posted October 5, 2010 We have already argued on the privacy issues in previous posts, so won't rehash all that again. But one observation is worth mentioning - BBs are no longer used just by corporates like before. I now seem to find them with every other person, including college guys. It seems you don't observe such changes. I willing to bet a million that you will find hundreds of BBs on suburban trains and buses, as you have mentioned. Lastly, you seriously think The Ambanis and Birlas and all will be caught in their acts by intercepting such communication?? Lol! Even if they are, you are talking about top of the line influential people, dude!! And I'm sure you know what that means... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted October 5, 2010 My dear friend your observation is true as far as BB handsets are concerned but BES(which is under fire)is something which is very limited to corporate guys even now. Common on my dear friend....Is it logical to even dream that Mr. Crow (RIM-VP) is fighting for the privacy of a common man???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raccoon 53 Report post Posted October 5, 2010 (edited) Gosh, that was sarcasm!! I'm not dreaming that RIM is fighting for the privacy of the common man in the least!! But the intentions notwithstanding - the net result is still favorable; ie. to keep prying govt. eyes out of private/corporate lives!! Btw, as for BES services, I have noticed many friends/colleges/acquaintances using this for personal communication as of now. So I would hesitate to say it is limited to corporate use only. Edited October 5, 2010 by raccoon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karthik R 246 Report post Posted October 7, 2010 You think they could stop putting these experts on the news with their doomsday scenarios of how the terrorists might attack us? Because you get the sense they're coming up with ideas that these people haven't thought of themselves!! LOL. Instead of chasing situations that might arise in future the Govt. should keep their guards on the obvious, India-Bangladesh border through which thousands of illegal immigrants and would-be-terrorists enter freely every year! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raccoon 53 Report post Posted October 7, 2010 Real issues like that are always FAR more difficult to deal with than the false/much less important issues which they try to project that they are solving. In fact, it is exactly why they need false issues - so that they can distract you from real issues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted October 7, 2010 India hopes to get automated access to BlackBerry messenger services from January Authorities to review situation near the end of October. India is hopeful of getting automated access to messages sent through Research In Motion Ltd.'s BlackBerry smartphones messenger services from Jan. 1, a spokesman for the federal Ministry of Home Affairs said Thursday. The government currently has manual access to such services, Onkar Kedia said in an emailed response to a query from Dow Jones Newswires. India, which had threatened to ban the BlackBerry corporate email service if the Canadian company failed to come up with tools to monitor it by the end of August, has said it will test methods and review the situation near the end of October. The government had earlier said that RIM had offered solutions to access the BlackBerry messenger, Internet, voice calls and short-messaging services. R. Chandrashekhar, secretary at the Department of Telecommunications, or DoT, said last Friday that it is trying to find an "appropriate solution" to intercept and monitor messages and corporate emails. India has also warned that RIM will have to set up a local server if it wishes to continue in the country and said the DoT will study the feasibility of services provided through such a server. The DoT is likely to submit its report on using a local server within 60 days. A spokesman at the company's Indian unit didn't immediately respond to emailed queries. RIM said earlier this week talks with the Indian government were constructive, and added that it "remains optimistic that a positive outcome can be achieved," over the issue of offering a solution to decode the encrypted mail and messages by Indian security agencies. India and some other countries such as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates recently sought access to monitor the services as they fear heavy encryption makes BlackBerry devices convenient for terrorists to use without being monitored. While Saudi Arabia has already said it would allow BlackBerry messenger services to continue as some of its regulatory requirements have been satisfied, the UAE has said it would halt BlackBerry's messenger, email and web browsing services Oct. 11. source :: http://www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=459214 It looks there is some ray of hope after a long treacherous journey. Let us pray that it's genuine hard real time access solution and not some camouflaged time-shift solution to fool Govt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karthik R 246 Report post Posted October 7, 2010 Terrorists usually carry very sophisticated and expensive satellite phone and related gears to communicate. Cant imagine a scene where they sit in some foxhole and instead use Blackberry Tour Is this what they train in camps - how to use BB, skype and gmail?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted October 8, 2010 BlackBerry wins UAE reprieve, looming ban halted DUBAI: The United Arab Emirates backed off a threat to cut key services on BlackBerry smart phones Friday, just days before the ban was set to take effect. The Gulf federation, home to the region's business hub and largest airport in Dubai, was planning to shut off BlackBerry messaging, e-mail and Web browsing services Monday. Half a million local users and travelers with foreign BlackBerrys would have been affected. The Emirates telecommunications regulator confirmed that a deal had been reached with device maker Research in Motion Ltd. that brought the devices into compliance with local laws. ``All Blackberry services in the UAE will continue to operate as normal and no suspension of service will occur'' as planned Monday, the Telecommunications Regulatory Authority said in a statement carried by state news agency WAM. It wasn't clear what concessions, if any, the Canadian device maker made to avert the ban. But the TRA, which has provided few details of what it is seeking, acknowledged ``the positive engagement and collaboration of Research In Motion (RIM) in reaching this regulatory compliant outcome.'' The wording of the statement suggested the reprieve was permanent. TRA representatives were not available for comment Friday, the start of the local weekend. RIM didn't immediately respond to request for comment. Emirati authorities had threatened to shut off BlackBerry messaging, e-mail and Web browsing services partly because of security concerns. The ban would have affected some 500,000 users locally and any outsiders using the smart phones in the Middle East business hub. source :: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/international-business/BlackBerry-wins-UAE-reprieve-looming-ban-halted/articleshow/6712440.cms It looks like RIM has solution to the problem. Let us hope for the best.................... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted October 12, 2010 (edited) India extends BlackBerry deadline on data sharing New Delhi, Oct 12 (IANS) India Tuesday decided to give more time to BlackBerry maker, Research in Motion (RIM), and asked it to come up by Dec 31 with a final solution on the deadlock over providing Indian intelligence agencies access to the private encrypted data sent through its servers. 'They have been given more time following discussions which are progressing satisfactorily,' home ministry spokesperson Onkar Kedia told IANS. Sources in the home ministry said the new deadline will be till Dec 31. This is the second time in six weeks that the government extended the deadline to RIM for access to its popular messenger, communications and business email and communications service, called the BlackBerry Enterprise Server. The decision was taken by the home ministry after a meeting with representatives of the Canadian smart phone maker and officials of the telecommunication ministry here. The government had earlier given Oct 31 as the deadline, threatening to block the services offered by the Indian operators if they did not comply with set norms. The government fears that online and mobile communications are increasingly being used by terrorists to plan attacks. According to the licensing conditions, service providers are liable to put in a mechanism allowing security agencies to intercept any conversation of any subscriber whenever required. The government first extended the original Aug 31 deadline to Oct 31. There are around one million BlackBerry subscribers in India. The negotiations between the government and RIM are deadlocked on the issue as RIM says it doesn't have a master key in the system that would allow it or any third party to gain access to encrypted corporate information. Sources said the home ministry was confident that the final solution would be found by Dec 31. RIM has experienced similar troubles with other countries over the messages sent through its server, with the United Arab Emirates warning to ban the service - a threat that was withdrawn last week. Saudi Arabia has also threatened action against the phone maker. source :: http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20101012/836/tbs-india-extends-blackberry-deadline-on.html This is just disgusting and terribly setting bad precedence. Why on earth Govt. is so reluctant to ban till solution is provided by RIM, it can be either Nov 30 or Dec 31 or anything else ? This kind of soft-pedalling on the critical issues of national security only shows the our Govt.'s weakness infront Global political powers. Just think, either USA, Isreal, China or Russia would have given such reprieve. Common on Govt...... Just remember, you are elected by Indian citizens and not by western corporates.....Please, just think in terms protecting lives of people. Edited October 12, 2010 by kesav Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted October 26, 2010 Telcos ready with tech to intercept Blackberry services NEW DELHI: The Telecom Ministry is understood to have written to the Home Ministry about operators' compliance with a rule on upgradation of systems to intercept data sent using Blackberry messenger and e-mail services. Leading operators including Airtel, Vodafone, state-run BSNL, Idea and Reliance Communications (RCom) are believed to have informed DoT that their systems are ready to lawfully intercept Blackberry messenger services, telecom ministry sources said. RCom, however, is understood to have raised doubts about the confidentiality of the interception process and fears that intercepted data could leak over the internet. Nevertheless, the Telecom Ministry has written to Home Ministry and the Intelligence Bureau about operators' readiness to demonstrate the interception technology. The government had on September 16 asked operators to upgrade their systems to monitor data sent via Blackberry messenger and enterprise e-mail services, as it feels the encrypted services could be used by terror elements to organise attacks. RCom, sources said, informed DoT that under the Lawful Interception Monitoring (LIM) system, a computer at the operators' end would be connected to the internet on one side and to LIM on the other. Blackberry vendor Research-in-Motion would run certain tools in the PC and push the intercepted contents over internet to their premises, where the content would be decoded and pushed back to the operator. RCom fears this would expose the confidentiality of the very interception process and is believed to have asked the government to review the process. Sources said Tata Teleservices and Aircel too have reported compliance, although two others -- state-run MTNL and Shyam-Sistema are yet to inform about their system upgradation. The government has given RiM time until end of January 2011 to give its intelligence agencies full access to all Blackberry services , which are currently routed through a server located outside the country. source :: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/telecom/Telcos-ready-with-tech-to-intercept-Blackberry-services/articleshow/6816572.cms Looks like RIM is nearing the solution. RIM should have obliged at the instance of first request instead playing global and corporate politics so long with Indian Govt. The issue higlighted above by RCOM can easily be solved with the help of operator's private key imho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted October 26, 2010 (edited) Home ministry targets VPNs After Research In Motion (owners of BlackBerry), the home ministry will now turn the screws on Microsoft, Google, IBM and Oracle. These companies provide technology and services for the virtual private networks (VPNs) run by various operators in India. The government will ask them to conform to regulation that allows intelligence agencies to lawfully intercept data. Failure to do so could result in the termination of VPN services by operators using their technology. In discussions with the department of telecommunications (DoT), the home ministry said intelligence reports pointed out that vendors offered VPN services or technology that did not conform to government instructions. It has asked DoT to issue VPN service providers and technology developers notices to provide solutions for lawful interception of data encrypted by these technologies. The home ministry has also requested DoT to initiate time-bound consultations with the service providers at the earliest. VPNs use public telecommunication infrastructure such as the Internet, to provide remote offices or individual users with secure access to their organisation's network. Many companies today have VPNs for inter-office communication. There are 25,000-0,000 VPN networks in the country and industry sources estimate that the market is growing at over 150 per cent a year. In response, a spokesperson for Google India said: “We have not received any communication on this issue from the government. Thereby, we are unable to comment on it.” While an Oracle spokesperson refused to comment, an IBM spokesperson said the company had no comments to offer as they had not seen any communication. "We have not seen any such notice and we will evaluate it once we do and then share our comments," said a Microsoft spokesperson. The move to get other global companies to fall in line on encryption technology for data comes close on the heels of the government putting the heat on BlackBerry services. Research In Motion has until December 31 to come up with a solution for decryption of its corporate office email services. It has provided an interim solution for interception of its messenger service, which is now being tested by intelligence agencies. The concern for security dominating the telecom sector is also reflected in the various restrictions imposed on the import of telecom equipment in the light of concerns that spyware could be embedded in equipment provided by Chinese suppliers. source :: http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/home-ministry-targets-vpns/412826/ Let us hope all the highlighted companies will fall in line sooner than later. But this time around, the companies under fire are from the land of uncle Sam. These companies will use all the powers under the roof(US Govt, US Trade lobbies, Indian Trade lobbies, Paid media campaign) to nullify this security move by Govt. Let us pray so that our Govt. gets enough strength to withstand ensuing ordeal. Dear Admins, Kindly change the topic heading to "BlackBerry, Skype, Gmail, 3G and now VPN come under the scanner of Indian Government" Edited October 26, 2010 by kesav Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted October 29, 2010 (edited) BlackBerry keeps extending its deadline, now asks for Jan 31, 2011 BlackBerry smartphone makers on Friday assured the Government that it would provide “final solution” to legal interception to its BlackBerry Messenger (BBM) services by January 31 next year but chose to remain silent on its enterprise email facility. A Home Ministry spokesman on Friday issued a statement that discussions were on between Canadian-manufacturer of the smartphone — Research In Motion (RIM) — with Government on the issue of providing access for lawful interception. “RIM has set up an interim arrangement for lawful interception of BBM services and also assured the Government that they will provide the final solution for the lawful interception of BBM services by January 31, 2011,” the spokesman said adding accordingly, the BBM services will continue to be available. The government had earlier extended the deadline to BlackBerry phone makers for providing a final solution by December 31 on giving access to security agencies to its popular messenger and enterprise services. The Government first extended the original August 31 deadline to October 31. The decision to give some more time was taken by the Home Ministry after a meeting with representatives of RIM and the Ministry of Telecom, official sources said. There are around one million BlackBerry subscribers in India. According to the licensing conditions, service providers are liable to put in a mechanism allowing security agencies to intercept any conversation or message of any subscriber whenever required. The smart phone makers have, however, informed the government that they could not provide any technology on intercepting the BlackBerry Enterprise Service (BES), which has also been under constant watch of the security agencies, the sources said. The government has asked technical committees of Department of Telecom and National Technical Research Organisations to give their suggestions on the BES before a decision could be taken, they said. As of now, voicemail, SMS and BlackBerry Internet Services have been made available to law enforcement agencies. BlackBerry had earlier written a letter to the Cabinet Secretary K.M. Chandrasekar cautioning the government that any ban of their core services will be counterproductive and futile and instead suggested that a joint consultative forum be formed to evolve procedures to intercept these services. “Singling out products like BES in the present instance and imposing ban on such services would be futile and counterproductive,” Vice President of RIM Robert E Crow had said in the letter sent in September this year. source :: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article857368.ece?homepage=true This is totally irritating.....How many extensions????? Govt. should now come up with some sort of fine which will be compounded daily starting from Jan 1, 2011 till the solution is provided by RIM. RIM has taken Indian govt. totally for granted. Edited October 30, 2010 by kesav Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KanagaDeepan 1,084 Report post Posted October 29, 2010 This is totally irritating.....How many extensions?????RIM has taken Indian govt. totally for granted. May be on seeing the taarik pe taarik comedy of MNP, RIM has got courage to ask for so many extensions of dead-lines... My words may seem like a joke, but it sadly is true also, imho... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raccoon 53 Report post Posted October 29, 2010 This is totally irritating.....How many extensions????? Govt. should now come with some sort fine which will be compounded daily starting from Jan 1, 2011 till the solution is provided by RIM. RIM has taken Indian govt. totally for granted. Indian govt. anyway takes its voters for granted. So its only fitting that at least someone else is taking it for granted, if that is the case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted November 13, 2010 DoT instructs all service providers to intimate it 35 days prior to provisioning of any service in their network alongwith functioning methodology by which real-time monitoring is possible for that service. DoT will approve that service only when it gets satisfied with the monitoring methodology outlined. Only after this approval, the service can go live. http://dot.gov.in/as/2010/as_03.11.2010.pdf It's a welcome move by DoT although it's quite late. :clap: It's better late than never. We'll no longer hear any ban on existing services causing inconvenience to subscribers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted November 18, 2010 (edited) RIM to surrender on India BlackBerry access Firm will provide access to communications to prevent permanent ban RIM is about to provide authorities in India with access to communications sent via the encrypted BlackBerry Enterprise Server (BES) in a bid to avoid a ban in the country. Reports in the Mint newspaper in India claim that government sources have said that the two parties have reached an agreement. "[RIM] has in principle agreed to provide us with recorded data from their servers. They have assured us they will discuss the issue first among themselves and find a way to meet our demands. Later, they would be providing live access to BES," the government is reported to have said. RIM did not respond to a request for comment when contacted by V3.co.uk. The move will mean that up to one million BlackBerry users in India could have their communications intercepted and read at any time, a situation that may prompt many customers, especially businesses, to consider alternative handsets. RIM has spent a good part of the year dealing with similar issues in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, which have disrupted its attempts to fight back against Apple and Android smartphones. The Indian government has also said that it may demand information from Skype and Google in its continuing efforts to crack down on terrorism. source :: http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2273252/rim-india-emails This proves law of land is superior to anything in the world. It's a blow to the people who thinks law can be bend with help of money power. Kudos to the Govt. for remaining strong against the vicious and high-handed attitude exhibited by RIM while dealing this matter. This is the singal to the western world that Indian laws are as strong as the strongest you can see in western world. :clap: Edited November 18, 2010 by kesav Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KumaarShah 143 Report post Posted November 18, 2010 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KanagaDeepan 1,084 Report post Posted November 18, 2010 (edited) not only to Govt.. But also to BharatBerry (With same BB handset, FREE Push-mail for few months and Rs50/month later) and RIM's declining-of-market-share in US, also for this sudden change from RIM.. Edited November 18, 2010 by KanagaDeepan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Honest 836 Report post Posted November 18, 2010 Great News. :clap: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted November 18, 2010 Intelligence chiefs of India, Canada meet; discuss BlackBerry New Delhi: India and Canada are understood to have discussed lawful interception of BlackBerry service and migration of Tamil refugees from Sri Lanka to Canada during talks between their Intelligence Chiefs here Thursday. Director of Canadian Security Intelligence Service Robert B Fadden met Director Intelligence Bureau Rajiv Mathur during which issues like sharing of intelligence, interception of BlackBerry service besides migration of Tamil refugees are said to have figured among others, official sources said. The government has asked BlackBerry phone makers Research in Motion (RIM) to come up with a final solution by December 31 on giving access to security agencies to its popular messenger and enterprise services. There are around one million BlackBerry subscribers in India. Earlier, Fadden also met Home Secretary G K Pillai and Research and Analysis Wing Chief A K Verma and discussed issues of mutual importance, the sources said. source :: http://biz.zeenews.com/news/news_content.aspx?newscatid=4&newsid=16660 Looks like there's link between this visit of Robert B Fadden and the surrender of RIM on BES. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
