Honest 836 Report post Posted January 27, 2011 RIM Won't Give the Indian Government Enterprise E-mail Access Canadian manufacturers Research in Motion have categorically stated that the Indian Government will not be getting access to their customers' Enterprise e-mails. Though RIM complied with the Government's demands to grant them access to Blackberry Messenger, this seems to be one stance they will not be budging from. According to Reuters, RIM seem to have two reasons for rejecting the possibility. One is the line they have continued to use ever since India asked for access, which is the claim that it is impossible for them to decrypt the information being beamed from the devices to their servers and back because they do not have a Master Key. The other being the fact that any security issue via Corporate e-mail is not exclusive to their Enterprise service, because of the possibility that there could be numerous companies who send encrypted e-mails via their own Virtual Private Networks (VPNs). RIM certainly are no strangers to this situation, with similar demands being issued by Saudi Arabia, the UAE and more. They even had porn filtered for their consumers in Indonesia following strong Government pressure and a threat of closure of their browsing service. However, RIM seem to believe giving the Indian Government access to Blackberry Messenger meets the Government requirements, so corporate e-mail access will not be happening. Courtesy : Tech2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) Govt. can now categorically declare that effective from 1st Feb 2011 BES will be banned in India. Enough is enough..... We don't want to hear any more lecture from west... Let Govt. ban BES and see how much GDP is going down..... :P The most interesting point here in the whole issue is that RIM adamantly continues to hold onto the lie that they can't decrypt the mails which is totally a cheating game. Edited January 27, 2011 by kesav Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
csmart 472 Report post Posted January 27, 2011 Its time for govt to show some balls. But I think govt wil bow to business pressure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karthik R 246 Report post Posted January 27, 2011 RIM have supposedly made assurances to Indian officials that unmonitored BlackBerry BES data cannot be used by terrorists in real time to communicate. How could they possibly make such assurances?? I believe RIM is already monitoring our BES emails through a backdoor! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raccoon 53 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) Very good... I feel like buying a BB device, just to support RIM. But not happy about them conceding about Blackberry Messenger. But if what Karthik says above is true, then it is a matter of concern. Obviously things going on behind the scene, which will probably never be made public. RIM is obviously protecting its own business interests. They know customers use it because its supposed to be private. Edited January 28, 2011 by raccoon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ami1 237 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 ^ Me Too :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raccoon 53 Report post Posted January 28, 2011 Seems like we are the only 2 deviants here.... at least amongst those who are vocal. Sigh... I'm wondering - what about apps like Whatsapp? I wonder if they have any encryption. I'm guessing it doesn't... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted January 31, 2011 BlackBerry impasse: Govt. stands firm on BES The government on Monday said it will “insist” that Canadian-manufacturer of Blackberry provides solution to interception of Enterprise Mail, deadline for which ends on Monday. Noting that a decision would be taken soon on whether to allow the BlackBerry Enterprise Mail or not, Home Minister P. Chidambaram said he expected that Research-in-Motion (RIM), manufacturer of the smartphones, would be able to find some solution. “I think a decision will be taken today by the Ministry of Home Affairs and the Telecom Ministry. I am not yet been briefed on the development in the last few days. “As I said, like they have given us a solution to the Messenger service, we will insist that they give us the solution for the enterprise service too,” Mr. Chidambaram told reporters after presenting monthly report of his Ministry. BlackBerry had been given time till Monday to give a solution to the real time interception of its enterprise mail, but sources indicated that it could be extended by another fortnight or a month. The comments from the Minister came in the backdrop of BlackBerry makers saying that providing solution to access its enterprise mail service is “not possible” and asserting that the issue was not unique to them and has to be dealt at an industry level. “There is no possibility of us providing any kind of a solution. There is no solution, there are no keys to be handed...It’s not possible to do so because the keys of the service are in possession of the corporate enterprises,” RIM Vice-President (Industry, Government and University Relations) Robert E. Crow had said earlier. Security agencies have been demanding access to all BlackBerry services as part of efforts to fight militancy and security threats over the Internet and through telephone communications. RIM encrypts emails as they travel between a BlackBerry device and its BlackBerry Enterprise Server (BES). Earlier this month, RIM had said that it has delivered the technology to monitor contents on its messenger service (BBM) and had asked the government to issue a directive to the operators to connect to its new automated service. This new service will automatically render lawfully intercepted BlackBerry Messenger messages in a format readable by Indian agencies. source :: http://www.thehindu.com/business/article1143158.ece?homepage=true I salute the Govt for being strong in its purpose. :hi2: Let the corporates learn that everything can't be bend in India with money power. Let them be taught that lives of Indians is as precious as life of Americans, Europeans, Chinese and Israelis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rajanmehta 4,056 Report post Posted January 31, 2011 Pakistan bans BB services for foreign missions REUTERS, Jan 31, 2011 KARACHI: Pakistani authorities have asked mobile telephone operators to stop BlackBerry services to foreign missions in the country amid concern about the security of the communications, industry sources said. Two industry officials confirmed that the regulator, the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA), had asked them to stop all Blackberry services to foreign missions. "I can confirm that PTA has asked us to stop all BlackBerry services to foreign embassies and high commissions," a senior official at a mobile company, who declined to be identified, said. Another industry official at another mobile company also confirmed receiving the instructions. "There are some other issues as well, mostly relating to BES (BlackBerry Enterprise Server), which we are trying to resolve in consultation with the PTA," he said. A PTA spokesman was not available for comment. BlackBerry maker Research In Motion has been buffeted by demands for access to its encrypted data from several countries, including India and United Arab Emirates, worried by security and social mores. Pakistani industry and government officials say that the government had never allowed BlackBerry services to foreign missions and inbound roamers when the services were launched in Pakistan in 2005. The government also initially banned the more secure BlackBerry Enterprise Server (BES) services in Pakistan. BES allows users to send and receive secure email and messages, which is difficult for governments to intercept and read. However, the instructions have since been flouted by all five Pakistani mobile operators. It was not clear why the government allowed them to do so or why it was acting now to enforce the restrictions. An industry source said that the government had asked all operators in the country to enforce the restrictions. "The most critical issue is the provision of BlackBerry services to the foreign embassies, missions and high commissions," said the source. "Therefore, all the operators have agreed to close all BlackBerry connections provided to them by January 31," he said, adding discussions would be held with the PTA to gain more time on the provision of BES to local customers as well as BlackBerry services to incoming roamers. If fully enforced, the restrictions would mean no BlackBerry services for many of the multinational companies and aid groups, who use the BES service rather than the Blackberry Internet Service, or BIS, which is much less secure. Last year, India demanded access to all BlackBerry services as part of efforts to fight militancy and security threats over the Internet and through telephone communications. Last week, RIM said there was no possibility of providing India access to corporate emails on BlackBerry devices. Source:Times of India Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Honest 836 Report post Posted February 1, 2011 Hmmmm......post by Rajan Bhai at 2.54 am.... Welcome to the NIGHTWATCHMAN GROUP of Rimweb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rajanmehta 4,056 Report post Posted February 1, 2011 Bhai mai or Genius check karte hai ki roz half an hour early sone ka vo HONEST promise kitna HONEST hai.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
city02 63 Report post Posted February 2, 2011 i would tend to disagree on the following points: 1. RIM / BB has NOT tried to 'bend anything with money power' and its wrong to imply otherwise [they have not had any more cases against them related to bribery / corruption than the Tatas which is a high enough standard for our country] 2. I've never been employed in any capacity by RIM or its subsidiaries - I'm just pointing out disinformation which tends to hog most of the attention 3. Secure encryption implies not having ANY form of backdoor access with another key else its easily subject to manupilation 4. Anyone insisting on any 'key' in BB's possession does not understand how public key encryption works since the only keys are in the possession of the users and not RIM 5. 'lives of Indians is as precious as life of Americans, Europeans, Chinese and Israelis' is true but irrelevant and hence a strawman since no one has claimed to the contrary 6. to date security agencies have not been able to provide ONE example of a terrorist escaping justice due to BB usage ALONE if they escape its due to the loopholes in the current system / infrastructure / response time etc. If they are convicted, its due to other primary evidence - no terrorist has yet been convicted SOLELY on the basis ot BB interceptions / msgs 7. its easy for the govt to demand 'real time interception' but this facility has not been provided ANYWHERE else in the world [not due to privacy reasons but technical constraints] 8. it shows an utter abdication of responsibility by security agencies purely on presumptive grounds of what MAY happen in the future as opposed to fixing the hundreds of internal problems that prevent them from doing their jobs more effectively TODAY including but not limited to: - budgets, manpower, resources - coordination / info sharing among relevant branches of govt [which even the US is still struggling with today] - leakages of sensitive data - preservation of evidence to prevent contamination - securing our borders - actively pursuing each lead to track down terror cells - basic anti-terror tactics development that is followed abroad - and dozens more that we as laypeople know nothing about but the people working at the agencies face daily BlackBerry impasse: Govt. stands firm on BES I salute the Govt for being strong in its purpose. :hi2: Let the corporates learn that everything can't be bend in India with money power. Let them be taught that lives of Indians is as precious as life of Americans, Europeans, Chinese and Israelis here's my analogy: our country is like the titanic slowly sinking in a sea of terrorism while security agencies are busy re-arranging the deck chairs [i.e., BB / RIM] and focusing on minor faults instead of the bigger issues that urgently need to be addressed like life boats and flotation devices 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ami1 237 Report post Posted February 2, 2011 here's my analogy: our country is like the titanic slowly sinking in a sea of terrorism while security agencies are busy re-arranging the deck chairs [i.e., BB / RIM] and focusing on minor faults instead of the bigger issues that urgently need to be addressed like life boats and flotation devices Very true. Instead of real policing we are stuck with BB sooping and securing WiFi type of stupid things. As if taking away BB will stop the terrorists dead in their tracks. Imagine them calling their bosses "sir, attack is canceled due to internet & BIS being down" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raccoon 53 Report post Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) here's my analogy:our country is like the titanic slowly sinking in a sea of terrorism while security agencies are busy re-arranging the deck chairs [i.e., BB / RIM] and focusing on minor faults instead of the bigger issues that urgently need to be addressed like life boats and flotation devices Like I said, they are doing what politicians do best - try to solve non-issues so that public attention is drawn from vexing real issues, which are of course way more difficult to solve. And the best thing is that most people still buy these smokescreens. Only that these are not just smokescreens, but have way more serious ramifications. Edited February 2, 2011 by raccoon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) @city02, My dear friend, I feel very sorry for you for being fooled by RIM's public speeches and press releases. You have based your arguments on the following pillars (1) Private keys are only with respective users (2) RIM has not provided real time access to BES to any country (3) Terrorist is not intelligent to use BES as communicating tool All of the above pillars are totally wrong and have been discussed length and breadth in this thread/forum. I request you spend some time to get abreast with all those discussions which have happened so far before trying to grind already ground flour. Edited February 2, 2011 by kesav Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted February 2, 2011 Coming back to the topic in hand, It's really shocking to see still BES not banned even after 48 hours of their deadline. :angry: :angry: It's high time for Govt. to ban BES and then continue the discussion with RIM on the subject. Only then, RIM will budge and they'll be under pressure to bring back the service. Otherwise, they'll continue to spread misinformation in public domain to pressure Govt. Govt.'s soft pedaling approach is really creating panic in the minds of people. Everyone is concerned whether Govt. has any guts to deal with money backed multinationals. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raccoon 53 Report post Posted February 2, 2011 Govt. has no guts to deal with any real issues - terrorists, corruption, scams, inflation, naxals, oil mafias, unprecedented adulteration of everything, bla, bla... so hopefully they will not deal with money backed multinationals either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karthik R 246 Report post Posted February 6, 2011 Develop capability to secure networks In the whole toing and froing between the government and Research In Motion ( RIM )), the makers of Blackberry , over access to Blackberry's closed user group traffic, what stands out is the government of India's total reliance on RIM's compliance to secure access to the traffic between two handsets that connect via an enterprise server. This is totally pathetic. True, in the case of a company that wants a slice of India's growing market for smartphones, the government might well be able to use browbeating tactics to extract compliance in the long run. But this reflects poorly on the government's technological savviness or preparedness to withstand cyber attacks. It is by now reasonably clear that Iran's nuclear plans have been dealt a major blow by deliberate infection of its critical computer systems with a sophisticated piece of malware, dubbed the Stuxnet worm. If a government cannot intercept the scrambled traffic between two phones without external assistance, can it protect itself against such sophisticated cyber attacks as the unleashing of the Stuxnet worm? Will a cyber attacker give either prior warning or helpful hints on identifying or remedying the attack? How does the government propose to defend India's vital security and nuclear establishments or even equally-critical commercial establishments from crippling cyber strikes? The answer is blowing in the wind, and it stinks. Without losing time, the government must give projects to all the Indian Institutes of Technology, the Indian Institute of Science and all the top software companies to develop the capability to monitor traffic and the means of cyber security. India must have indigenous capability for cyber defence and offence. It must have the intellectual capability and its deployment to corner a large share of the growing market for serious cyber security. What this calls for is the will to act, more than anything else. And the government must show its toughness in summoning this will to act, not against sundry hardware companies. - Economic Times Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted February 13, 2011 (edited) Enable interception or stop BlackBerry services: Govt to telcos NEW DELHI: Hardening its stance against Blackberry for not providing a solution to intercept Enterprise mail services, the government today said telecom operators will have to stop any such services that can not be monitored as per the satisfaction of law enforcement agencies. BlackBerry-maker Research in Motion (RIM) has been saying that it cannot provide access to the popular BlackBerry Enterprise Service (BES) as it does not possess any key and the security architecture is the same around the world. "It is between the licencee (operators) to tell RIM that look if you can't do this, you can't use my network. It is as simple as that. I have only to deal with the licencee. I do not deal with RIM matters. I do not have any agreement with Blackberry," Union Home Secretary G K Pillai told PTI. He noted this was in line with a condition in the licence agreement between the government and service providers that states, "Whoever uses your network, we must be able to intercept that in a form to the satisfaction of the Law Enforcement Agency." Asked whether the government has extended the deadline of January 31 for RIM to provide a solution to the satisfaction of LEAs, Pillai said, "We have not extended the date, but it has not been terminated also." "Our aim is to make sure that whatever goes through our networks, we should be able, if required, intercept it... The issue is that we want that if you are using the network as per the licencing condition, there must be a provision for us to intercept... those which we want to intercept and that must be readable and legible format." Eight operators including Bharti , Vodafone , Idea, RCom , Tatas and also two state owned firms -- BSNL and MTNL -- are offering BlackBerry services across the country and it has emerged a popular service among corporates for its enterprise mail service. RIM vice-president (Industry, Government and University Relations) Robert E Crow , who was in India recently, had said, "There is no possibility of us providing any kind of a solution. There is no solution, there are no keys to be handed... It's not possible to do so because the keys of the service are in possession of the corporate enterprises." However, the argument is not bought by the security establishment. The Home Secretary said, "Even messenger services -- they all said we can't do it... We can't do it... Only when we said, okay, we are gonna close it down, they came and said here is the solution. I have a feeling... under pressure they'll do it." There are over one million BlackBerry subscribers in India and the number is growing fast. Indian security agencies have been demanding access to all BlackBerry services as part of efforts to fight militancy and security threats over the Internet and through telephone communications. source :: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/hardware/enable-interception-or-stop-blackberry-services-govt-to-telcos/articleshow/7487217.cms Finally and finally Govt shows that it cares for the safety and security of people of India. :signthankspin: From the beginning, It has been insisted by several people that Govt has nothing to do with RIM. It's totally unnecessary on the part of Govt to work with RIM. It's a matter between service providers and RIM. Govt just want capability to hard real-time monitor everything flowing in the network of all the operators to the satisfaction of law enforcement agencies. end of the story... It's onus on the operators to deal with their application partners to ensure only such services are allowed in their network. :locked: If BES is shutdown for a day/week, then the solution will immediately be flying from Canada in the next flight. :rofl_200: Edited February 13, 2011 by kesav Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted February 23, 2011 RIM drags Nokia, Google, Apple, Hewlett-Packard, Microsoft and Cisco to save face. TORONTO: BlackBerry maker Research In Motion (RIM), which has faced many deadlines from India for providing access to its enterprise service or encrypted emails in view of threats to the country's national security, on Tuesday said that any tough measures by New Delhi won't help in attracting businesses or its huge outsourcing industry. RIM, which has already given the Indian authorities access to its consumer services since January, is unwilling to bend on its enterprise emails in the world's fastest growing mobile market. In a note to its enterprise customers, the BlackBerry maker said it "fully appreciates and supports the priority India rightly places on national security." But the Waterloo-based Canadian wireless giant added that encryption is the key to wooing and retaining business in today's world and Indian authorities have understood its importance in their various meetings with its representatives. Any ban on it will impact the country's economic development and its outsourcing industry, RIM said Expressing its willingness to discuss any policy changes, RIM said since its competitors also use encryption in India, they too should be the subject of the Indian scrutiny. RIM said its encryption-using competitors have tried to take advantage of the situation Indian authorities fixed the spotlight on its enterprise service. Among the companies which use encryption in India are Nokia, Google, Apple, Hewlett-Packard, Microsoft, and Cisco, according to RIM. In its note, RIM mentioned the January 31 as the deadline for giving access to its consumer services in India. But it made no mention of any deadline given by India for access to its enterprise service. India was among many other countries, including Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Indonesia, which last year threatened to shut BlackBerry services for security or related reasons. Just last month, BlackBerry blocked porn sites in Indonesia after the government of the biggest Muslim in the world threatened to shut its services. Indonesia has three million BlackBerry subscribers and generates about $250 million for RIM. Unlike emails on the Internet, RIM's encrypted emails pass through its own servers. The Canadian company has maintained that its has no master key to get access its enterprise emails. source :: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/BlackBerry-warns-tougher-measures-would-affect-Indias-business/articleshow/7554118.cms As a last attempt in its battle against India, RIM drags its competitors into the security struggle. Let us wait and watch, what competitors had to say about this open allegation by RIM. :Riendo: :Riendo: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted March 10, 2011 Govt to establish automated Centralized Monitoring System (CMS) for lawful interception and monitoring. The Centralized Monitoring System (CMS) is proposed to be set up for Lawful Interception and Monitoring of communications to address the national security concerns. It will automise the present manual system of interception and monitoring, which will enhance the secrecy of intercepted numbers and will cut down the delay in provisioning. The Licence Terms and Conditions of all the Telecom Service Providers (TSPs) have been amended to take care of known security concerns A report for enhancing the Manufacturing and R & D of Telecom equipments indigenously has also been submitted. This information was given by the Minister of State for Communications & Information Technology, Shri Sachin Pilot in written reply to a question in Lok Sabha today. source :: http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=70747 A much needed and appreciable move by Govt to address the concerns of privacy. :clap: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesav 127 Report post Posted March 10, 2011 Blackberry may be blacked out effective 1st April 2011 New Delhi: Union Home Minister P Chidambaram demanded that Research in Motion (RIM) proprietors of Blackberry sign with India a sovereign service contract similar to the one that they have with China and Saudi Arabia, if they wanted to continue services in the country. Blackberry which has been red-flagged as a huge security concern since the intelligence agencies are unable to intercept their messages flatly refused. Chidambaram, who in no mood to brook this, has now recommended to the Telecom Ministry that all Blackberry services be stopped effective March 31. Authoritative sources told Zee News that the Canadian based company had clearly worked out a deal with China and Saudi-Arabia, but was not playing ball with India. source :: http://biz.zeenews.com/news/news_content.aspx?newscatid=4&newsid=21912 The highlighted aspect is too discriminatory to tolerate. Let RIM be taught in a hard way that India is not so weak.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ami1 237 Report post Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) Kesav bro, i think you'll definitely succeed in making my BB useless very soon. But there's no other way to get our office Lotus Notes (yes, we still use that) email on any handset. If it was outlook exchange server it could be had on android etc but Lotus Notes - no one supports - many haven't even heard of it. Though its a very very secure platform and has much more than email - a lot of office processes are in lotus apps. Maybe, we should just disable all encryption in our emails, banking & demat sites and entire population of India should have same password for everything - that will smoothen the process of gubermint being able to see all communications (sorry, couldn't resist adding that last para !) Edited March 11, 2011 by ami1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kshah 452 Report post Posted March 11, 2011 Not only blackberry, even gmail and yahoo mail's web interface should be put under scanner. In web based mails, they no longer attach IP address of sender in headers. This leaves mails untraceable. IMO, web based mails are one of the biggest security threat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raccoon 53 Report post Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) Maybe, we should just disable all encryption in our emails, banking & demat sites and entire population of India should have same password for everything - that will smoothen the process of gubermint being able to see all communications (sorry, couldn't resist adding that last para !) Perfect solution. But I wonder if it will satisfy our rotten govt. Perhaps they will be happy only if they ban the net itself. Lets go back to the pigeons. But in this era, I'm sure they will want to licence and tag them at least. All for our own good of course. At least let us revel in the knowledge that we ware so well protected. Edited March 11, 2011 by raccoon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
