Suggestions regarding Low Cost, Low Power small office server - thin client setup

[hiteshkkk1 327]

dyndns...

xxxx.homeip.net

[hiteshkkk1 327]

I have some winxp tutorials for installing it on pendrive and DOMs and although i had got it to work and even have an image saved somewhere it had some issues with installing/updating drivers etc. Will see if I can upload the image or courier a CD. Will also try to include a linux image on the CD/DVD with the requirements you mentioned. You'll need to copy the win or lin images onto pendrive using DD command in linux. Will also send the DOM to you. Mail/PM me your address. Lin image will take time for 1st boot since your hardware will be configured. Win image may boot in safe mode or may not boot at all if h/w is too different. In that case use the tutorial to make another image. Give me a few days i'll do this in weekend.

Pls mail me procedure to install winxp on pen drive...

[rajanmehta 4,056]

@Hitesh

Post your experiences. Where have you reached in your project?

[hiteshkkk1 327]

Still research is going on...

Actually I will be shifting my office to new premises within a month & all this planning is for that new premises. So, I am devoting lot of time on research.

Some of my findings are as below:-

1. I tired WINCE based NETCOMPUTER Thinclient. This are low cost chinese boxes & work over ethernet. Quality is crap. I got is around 4.5k but its not at all a VFM product. I returned it.

2. I got Atom based thin client (Config :- D945gcnl + 512 ram + 512 DOM with SUSE + DC-DC smps based mini itx cabinet Panache model no. 3311 which i mentioned in one of my previous posts. Its cost is around 9k. Quality is good. It supports high resolution. I tried using RDP on it. It seemed to work good but not best. Screen refresh was bit slow & ALT+TAB would effect on Linux & not on windows. After that, on same pc, I used UBUNTU thru pen drive. Booting time was bit on higher side. RDP worked fine with just 1 flaw that there was no effect of caps lock in windows & for caps typing, I had to press shift & then type.

I know ALT+TAB & Caps can be solved. But still I feel its not 100% efficient solution.

On power consumption side, this DC based atom + LCD drew just 0.2 Amps of current which translates to 40-45 VA. which is decent low when compared to 0.8 Amps for full fledged system with AC smps.

Finally, I have 2 things in my mind to try next.

1. Try Ncomputing L300. I am already using Ncomp X350 but that is a PCI card based & have some limitations as far as distance is concerned. I have also tested Ethernet based L230 but again performance is not at par & refresh rates are bit slower. L300 as per website supports full screen video & I think will solve my problem.

Cost : X350 around 11k, L230 around 6k, L300 around 8k.

Power savings is great in ncomputing.

2. Try Atom based PC or All in one with sata hard disk & win xp. Power consumption would be more but system would be more stable.

cost around 9k.

Will post my further findings soon..

In the mean time, I had bought Kodak Duplex ADF Scanner for archival of documents to save paper n electricity in photo copying them.

Model No. is Scanmate i1120 & cost is around 27k.

Its a decent performer & lowest cost in its category.

[rajanmehta 4,056]

Nice reading your experiments. Keep them coming. You are one hard working fellow. Wish you success in your efforts.

Still my instinct says that you will find the perfect performance only with Full Fledged PC's and Server.

[rajanmehta 4,056]

@Hitesh

Received this in my mailbox. May be of some help to you in your project.

Dear Business Leader,

I am pleased to highlight an exciting announcement from Red Hat.

Red Hat recently launched Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization for Desktops (RHEV-D). The solution would allow customers to deploy Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) on servers located in centralized datacenters - thereby bringing scalable, centralized provisioning and management of their desktop systems. Users can connect to these virtual desktops using either inexpensive thin clients or re-purposed PCs.

RHEV-D delivers the promise of hosted desktops with

EXCEPTIONAL USER EXPERIENCE

Rich multimedia experience, including multiple monitors, HD-quality video and bi-directional audio/video for video conferences

CROSS-PLATFORM SUPPORT

For both Windows and Linux virtual desktops

DATA SECURITY AND COMPLIANCE

Eliminate the risk of data loss, and preventing inappropriate use and data leakage

BUSINESS CONTINUITY AND AGILITY

Defer desktop replacements, enable users to access different operating systems from the same device, ensuring uptime in the event of hardware failure or catastrophic event

RHEV-D has already started gaining momentum in the market.

"The ability to migrate, secure and manage end users via a single solution are key benefits of virtual desktop infrastructure, and Wyse is excited about Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization," said Param Desai, director of Virtualization Solutions Product Management at Wyse Technology.

For most organizations, compelling reason for deploying a virtual desktop is the reduction of capital and maintenance expenditures when compared to a physical personal computer. Prominent areas for such savings are:

CAPITAL SAVINGS

VDI allows a customer to reuse its existing personal computers as dumb terminals or use thin clients which are at least $300 cheaper than an average physical desktop

POWER SAVINGS

Thin clients typically utilize ~15W of power against 150W for physical PC

SIMPLIFIED MANAGEMENT

Savings through reduced desktop visits

We believe RHEV-D marks a major milestone towards delivering enterprise class integrated virtualization solution, and would help more customers to break down the barriers to virtualization adoption.

For more, see: http://ubmindia.co.i...u6p0IpT0BS5n0Ev

Thank you

Best Regards,

Red Hat Team

[hiteshkkk1 327]

^^^ Nice share... +1 for this..

[hiteshkkk1 327]

Finally I have marched ahead in my experiment & below are my findings...

System config:

Core i3 with Intel P55TC board (it is 1k costlier than gigabyte but has dual display which i needed) - 9700/-

Kingston 1333mhz DDR3 RAM 2gbx2 - 3900/-

Intex Cabinet - 500/-

Coolermaster 400w power supply - 2000/- (its really silent)

DVD Writer LG - 950/-

500gb Seagate - 1850/- (bought 2 months back)

1. Installed ubuntu 64bit desktop edition. (Tried server edition but seems its setup is not gui so i didnt take much efforts & settled down for desktop)

2. Installed Virtual Box OSE thru ubuntu software manager.

3. Installed Win 7 on 1 of the VM created with 800mb ram & 20gb hdd.

4. Setup was breeze & infact win 7 ran smoothly with all my softwares. Could even access this win7 from other pcs on network thru RDP which is the main thing i needed. Even that was breeze.

5. Cloned VDI of this VM just by making its one more copy & changed it UID thru "vboxmanage internalcommands" command in windows. Actually since i m a noob for linux, i was not able to run terminal in virtualbox folder in linux so copied vdi in windows, mades its copy there & changed its UID & re-copied in linux & then made a new VM with HDD as this new cloned VDI.

6. 2nd VM also started (1st was shut down). I changed its PC name & other conflicting parameters & then started both of them together. Still no issues.

7. Did this for 3rd & 4th too. Till 3rd, it was going smoothly with 80% ram utilisation. Once started 4th, 95% ram was utilised & it seemed that I had raped the system. Even the mouse pointer would not move as max ram was used by these 4 pcs & nothing was remaining for host pc resources. Ultimately i had to restart the pc.

8. I modified ram to 600mb for all the pcs & restarted all the 4 simultaneously. Now all 4 pcs were running perfectly with ram utilisation of 80%.

Now, main stress test would be to put all this 4 pcs to use by my staff for routine work & will do it on monday. These would be accessed by RDP.

Seems I can settle down to this system. Also, I have 2 ram slots free so that I can upgrade to 4gb more if required.

I have some doubts & m sure my gurus will have the answer.

1. Even when RAM utilisation was 80-90% CPU utilisation was hardly 15-20%. Why this happens?? Is it because I just started this 4VMs but didnt do any work on them. Infact, I never even heard CPU fam's speed getting increased due to load. It was calm at around 1-1.5k rpm.

2. If there is so much unutilised power in CPU, then I can even upgrade the RAM to max supported of 16gb & run around 10-11 Pcs with 1 GB ram each. In that case, will processor be raped??

3. In above system, are there any modification required like change of OS or change of VM software to vmware or esxi or xen or any other thing which can give even better performance??

4. I have to buy one more such pc for my single use. So, should i opt for core i5 for this server & put core i3 in my system?? I mean increasing cpu capacity will make any visible difference?? if not, then even my I will go with i3.

Once I am comfortable with this setting, I will continue with this & for accessing this VMs thru RDP, I have my existing ncomputing setup which as of now is being used for all the work but as i said in my earlier posts, i need seperate pcs for all the staff due to multiple instance issues of odin n other softwares so this virtual thing. One more possibility is instead of accessing these pcs thru RDP, I can install ncomputing in this system itself in ubuntu (if i find the drivers.. havent checked yet) & once linux is loaded immedly staff can start their own VM.

Hope my experiment is helpful to others & I would be glad to answer queries to any other members wanting to implement this.

Also, gurus, thanks for ur support till now & expecting same in future.

[rajanmehta 4,056]

I have some doubts & m sure my gurus will have the answer.

1. Even when RAM utilisation was 80-90% CPU utilisation was hardly 15-20%. Why this happens?? Is it because I just started this 4VMs but didnt do any work on them. Infact, I never even heard CPU fam's speed getting increased due to load. It was calm at around 1-1.5k rpm.

Because you had 4gb of RAM and most of that you allocated to 4vm's. So hardly anything left for the UBUNTU Os and so you will experience freezes and slow response. General Rule of thumb is not to allocate more than 50% of RAM to your virtual machines. However this differs when you have huge amount of RAM, Say 16 GB. In this case you can reserve approx 2 gb for OS and allocate the rest to your VM's. CPU utilization will entirely depend on what processes or apps are running on each VM. If there is no activity it will be underutilized.

2. If there is so much unutilised power in CPU, then I can even upgrade the RAM to max supported of 16gb & run around 10-11 Pcs with 1 GB ram each. In that case, will processor be raped??

You did not mention the frequency of your processor. However i3 is a Dual Core Processor and if 10-11 PC's (VM's) are running concurrently and each having a no. of applications running, it will tire out.

3. In above system, are there any modification required like change of OS or change of VM software to vmware or esxi or xen or any other thing which can give even better performance??

Since you have not installed UBUNTU Server OS, i did not understand the logic of installing UBUNTU Desktop, then Virtual Box and then creating Windows 7 VM's. I think you may get better performance by installing Windows 7 64 Bit on your main machine, then VMWARE for Windows in Windows 7 64 bit and then creating Windows XP Virtual Machines in VMWARE. This way memory requirements for Windows XP VM's will be less compared to Windows 7 VM. Also VMWARE for Windows has much better hardware support for virtualisation compared to Virtual Box.

Also enable Hardware Virtualisation setting in BIOS if you have one in your particular motherboard.

4. I have to buy one more such pc for my single use. So, should i opt for core i5 for this server & put core i3 in my system?? I mean increasing cpu capacity will make any visible difference?? if not, then even my I will go with i3.

I have already told you earlier that Core i5 is too costly for your use. And instead of settling for Core i3, go for AMD Six Core CPU as i told earlier. It is the best bang for buck you can get for a Six Core CPU. No Intel 6 Core CPU is available in this budget. Period. And since now you will be installing Windows 7 64 Bit, there will be no issue of finding Hardware Drivers for your AMD Motherboard. Consider AMD 890GX Chipset and a quality motherboard like Asus.

[hiteshkkk1 327]

^^^ Good that I had installed Win7 64BIT along with UBUNTU before hand.. Will try ur suggestions..

I opted for UBUNTU desktop as was not able to setup Server. Its setup was not GUI & I cud not understand it properly so i skipped..

Will post my experience..