Didn't Want To Bribe My Way Into Airline Business: Ratan Tata

[kshah 452]

^

Nahi Yaar, you are such a close friend... tumse jyada der to koi bhi gussa nahi reh sakta...

But my point is that though I respect the Tata group very much and believe they are the highest in ethics and quality of services to their customers, it is very hard for us to comment with 100% surety that they must not have given a single paisa bribe ever either in cash or kind... In Indian businesses it is inconceivable to survive without arm twisting of some kind and that is a fact... I can say with certainty as I am one of "bhagidaars" of this system... I started with high moral values fresh after doing my mba and trying to implement Kotler to the hilt... but soon learnt the "hard" way the truth about running the businesses here... that is not to say that I ever compromised with the quality of goods or services that I rendered but some facts of life cannot be swept under the carpet...

Same story with every one, start with high moral value - learn to compromise - in process change definition or morality - or change your self to gain maximum out of corrupt systems (They are called most successful people / companies) - yet accepting the fact that corruption is inevitable and for one or other reason we too are corrupt and not advocating corruption is one of the best possible way to live with. Not all can live with principles and be leaders. Now a day leaders are even more corrupt as they get BRAINLESS FOLLOWERS.

Lets not make this a personal thread. Sorry for being OFF topic

[csmart 472]

Tata dont pay when asked directly or where they know it will be "open". they pay otherwise. in this case, singapore airlines may not have budge. i know Tatas pay handsomely. otherwise, how TCS can beg orders from govt agencies and that too defeating other govt. agency.

there are many govt. projects that TCS is handling even though it does not know the ABCD of the work...

and today, private cos are even more corrupt than govt..

[city02 63]

One reason I'm not a Tata fan is this - Don't let TATA terminate the turtles.

Some here believe that Tatas are not after money.

If they are not after money then I guess they have some inexplicable congenital hatred towards the last few poor Olive Ridley Turles?

why only focus on the 'OR turtles'?

there are critically endangered species going extinct on a daily basis:

Critically Endangered is the highest risk category assigned by the IUCN Red List for wild species. Critically Endangered means that a species' numbers have decreased, or will decrease, by 80% within three generations.

The turtles do not even feature in the top 10 list as of 2010 q1:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100409162708.htm

The list of endangered species includes:

• Cuban crocodile: Currently restricted to two small areas of Cuba.
• Grenada dove: The national bird of Grenada is threatened by habitat loss.
• Florida bonneted bat: Thought to be extinct in 2002; a small colony has since been discovered.
• Green-eyed frog: Only a few hundred of these small amphibians are left.
• Hirola: Also called Hunter's hartebeest; the hirola is a highly threatened African antelope.
• Ploughshare tortoise: With only 400 left, the ploughshare tortoise is threatened by the illegal pet trade.
• Island gray fox: Living on the California Channel Islands, this is the smallest fox in the United States.
• Sumatran orangutan: This population has declined 80 percent during the past 75 years.
• Vaquita: This small ocean porpoise is drowning in fishing nets.
• White-headed langur: Only 59 of these monkeys remain on a small island off Vietnam.

Even the good old tiger is more endangered according to the WWF:

http://www.wwf.org.uk/news_feed.cfm?3618/Ten-to-watch-in-2010

WWF’s “Ten to Watch in 2010” list:

Tiger

New studies indicate that there may be as few as 3,200 tigers (Panthera tigris) left in the wild. Tigers occupy less than seven percent of their original range, which has decreased by 40 percent over the past ten years. Continuing deforestation and rampant poaching could push some tiger populations to the same fate as its now-extinct Javan and Balinese relatives in other parts of Asia. Tigers are poached for their body parts, which are used in traditional Asian medicine, while skins are also highly prized. Additionally, sea level rise, due to climate change, threatens the mangrove habitat of a key tiger population in Bangladesh’s and India’s Sundarbans. The upcoming Chinese Year of the Tiger, starting in February 2010, will mark an important year for conservation efforts to save wild tigers, with WWF continuing to play a vital role in implementing bold new strategies to save this magnificent Asian big cat.

Polar Bear

The Arctic’s polar bears (Ursus maritimus) have become the iconic symbol of early victims of climate-induced habitat loss. Designated a threatened species for protection by the Endangered Species Act in the U.S., many polar bear populations will be vulnerable to extinction within the next century if warming trends in the Arctic continue at the current pace. WWF is supporting field research to better understand how climate change will affect polar bears and to develop adaptation strategies. WWF also works to protect critical polar bear habitat by working with governments and industry to reduce threats from shipping and oil and gas development in the region and with local communities to reduce human-bear conflict in areas where bears are already stranded on land for longer periods of time due to lack of ice.

Pacific Walrus

The Arctic’s Bering and Chukchi Seas are home to the Pacific walrus (Odobenus rosmarus divergens), one of the latest victims of climate change. In September of this year, up to 200 dead walruses were spotted on the shore of the Chukchi Sea on Alaska’s northwest coast. These animals use floating ice for resting, birthing and nursing calves, and protection from predators. With Arctic ice melting, the Pacific walrus is experiencing habitat loss to the extent that in September 2009, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced that adding the walrus to the Endangered Species Act may be warranted.

Magellanic Penguin

Once threatened primarily by oil spills, Magellanic penguins (Spheniscus magellanicus), now face a larger threat as fish are displaced by warming ocean currents, forcing the birds to swim farther to find food. Last year hundreds of Magellanic penguins washed up on beaches around Rio de Janeiro, many emaciated or dead. Scientists have speculated that changes in ocean currents or temperatures, which may be related to climate change, could have been responsible for their movement more than a thousand miles north of their traditional nesting area in the southern tip of Argentina. Twelve out of the 17 penguin species are currently experiencing rapid population decline.

Leatherback Turtle

The largest marine turtle and one of the largest living reptiles, the leatherback turtle, (Dermochelys coriaceathe) has survived for more than a hundred million years, but is now facing extinction. Recent estimates of numbers show that this species is declining, particularly in the Pacific where as few as 2,300 adult females now remain, making the Pacific leatherback the world's most endangered marine turtle population. Atlantic turtle populations are more stable but scientists predict a decline due to the large numbers of adults being caught as bycatch and killed accidentally by fishing fleets. Additionally, rising sea levels and higher temperatures on Atlantic beaches pose a new threat to turtles and their offspring. Nest temperature strongly determines the sex of offspring, and a nest warming trend is reducing the number of male turtles. WWF aims to conserve leatherback turtle migratory pathways - by working with fisheries to decrease bycatch, by protecting critical nesting beaches, and by raising awareness so that local communities will protect turtles and their nests.

Bluefin Tuna

The Atlantic bluefin tuna (Thunnus thynnus) is a large migratory fish found in the western and eastern Atlantic and the Mediterranean Sea. Bluefin tuna is the source of highest grade sushi. Bluefin tuna fisheries are near collapse and the species at serious risk of extinction if unsustainable fishing practices in the Eastern Atlantic and Mediterranean are not stopped. A temporary ban on the global trade of bluefin tuna would allow the overexploited species to recover. WWF is encouraging restaurants, chefs, retailers, and consumers to stop serving, buying, selling, and eating endangered bluefin tuna until this amazing species shows signs of recovery.

Mountain Gorilla

Mountain gorillas (Gorilla beringei beringei) are classed as critically endangered on the red data list , with about 680 surviving in the wild. Mountain gorillas are effectively divided into two distinct populations. The first is confined to Uganda’s Bwindi Impenetrable National Park. The second is found in the Virunga Volcano Region (VVR), which lies across the international borders of Rwanda, Uganda and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). These protected areas are situated within one of the most densely populated regions of Africa (420 people/km ²), placing intense pressure on the protected areas. The primary threat to mountain gorillas comes from forest clearance and degradation. Conservation efforts have led to an increase in the Virunga population by 14% since 1987, while the mountain gorillas other home, the Bwindi Impenetrable Forest in Uganda, has experienced population increases of 6% over the past decade. Despite this success, the mountain gorillas status remains fragile, and WWF is working to save the great ape’s forest habitat in the mountains of the heart of Africa.

Monarch Butterfly

Every year millions of delicate monarch butterflies (Danaus plexippus) migrate from North America to their winter habitat in Mexico. A well conserved and protected high-altitude pine and fir forest in Mexico is essential for the survival of the overwintering of monarchs, which has been recognized as an endangered biological phenomenon. The protection of its reproductive habitats in the United States and Canada is also crucial to saving this species migration, one of the most remarkable natural phenomena on the planet. WWF, in collaboration with the Mexican Fund for the Conservation of Nature, has designed an innovative conservation strategy to protect and restore the Monarch butterflies wintering habitat in Mexico, so butterflies are protected from extremes weather and other threats. WWF is also supporting local communities to establish trees nurseries that are reintroduced to the monarch butterfly reserve, creating at the same time new sources of income for the owners of the monarch forests.

Javan Rhinoceros

Listed as Critically Endangered on the IUCN Red List (2009), the Javan rhino (Rhinoceros sondaicus) is considered to be one of the most endangered large mammals in the world with only two populations existing in the wild, for a total number of less than 60 animals. Highly prized as a commodity in traditional Asian medicine, Javan rhinos have also been brought to the verge of extinction by the conversion of forest habitat to farmland. WWF has been involved in protection and conservation of the Javan rhino since 1998, supporting forest rangers to undertake increased patrolling and protection activities, conducting surveys of the rhino population, raising awareness of the importance of the rhinos to local communities, and supporting park management. Last month, highly trained sniffer dogs were used to search for traces of the extremely rare and endangered Vietnamese Javan Rhinoceros, of which no more than a dozen are thought to exist. These samples will be analysed to better understand the gender mix and whether this small population has a chance of survival.

Giant Panda

An international symbol of conservation since WWF’s founding in 1961, the giant panda (Ailuropoda melanoleuca) which numbers around 1,600 in the wild, faces an uncertain future. Its forest habitat in the mountainous areas of southwest China has become fragmented, creating a number of small and isolated populations. WWF has been active in giant panda conservation for nearly three decades by working working with the Chinese government to protect habitats through the creation of reserves and to help local communities become less dependent on forest resources. Over half of the habitat where pandas live is now protected, and corridors are being established to connect key panda populations. But the 1,600 remaining wild pandas are still living in over 20 geographically separate areas, and infratructure development is on the increase, so there’s still much more to be done.

[raccoon 53]

^^^Didn't exactly get the purpose of the above info.     I "focused" on the Olive Ridleys as their future is directly threatened by Tata. And really, it should not matter if they are engendered or not. Humans are not endangered in that sense. So shall we go around obliterating colonies of them for economic "progress"?

[rajanmehta 4,056]

Without going into arguments whether TATAs have ever paid a bribe or not, the one thing which sets it apart from any business group in India is its Corporate Social Responsibility. It has built some of the best institutions in India. Developed entire cities, helped thousands of people through their trusts, established perhaps the best Cancer Care Hospital in India.

Please go through the following links to understand the meaning of what their contribution in the last 100 years to India and its people is.

Tata Group Institutions

Sports and Arts

Community Initiatives

Tata Trusts

If one has time, most of the above links have sublinks for detailed information.

Is there a single business group in India which can match the above?

[ACS 130]

Is there a single business group in India which can match the above?

Very true.. I see none.

[copperco2 24]

considering a link given the forum elsewhere..a conversation between Ratan Tata (Tata Teleservices)and the dubious public relations company promoter, even Tata is on par with other corporates.

Newspaper reports (Times of India) says that the PRO was give Rs.60Cr to liaison between Raja and TTSL..

this stands true for the bigger projects.. bigger

Edited November 27, 2010 by copperco2

[Saurav 22]

Majority of the Fiber network laid in Cities be it any Private Telecom Operator, None has Permission for even 25% of total Network.

I am talking of Network in Cities not National Back Bone.

As per MC or other Govt Local Bodies in Cities charges are required to be paid for every metre, every Pole and every Main Hole as well as Restoration but Local bodies have never bothered to count them.

They bribe Govt. officials directly or indirectly through Vendors.

Maximum Mouling is done during Nights for the same reason.

Media people are aware of it but they never Highlight it due to their own requirements. U can imagine the PAN India Length of Network laid by all operators and calculate SCAM amount involved.

[satishdave 2]

however there is a point which should not be overlooked, It might be that Tata's also want their employees... to be reminded about the companies ethics of not taking bribe, so o the top management publicize such issues into the their employee world...I think so

Edited November 27, 2010 by satishdave

[Karthik R 246]

Now I have a fair idea on why Tata Docomo didnt even get the start up spectrum in lucrative Delhi circle. Either they didnt pay the bribe asked for or the incumbent operators - Airtel, Vodafone,... fearing that TD will eat the share of their pie, offered more bribe!

[copperco2 24]

http://www.rimweb.in/forums/topic/28124-barkha-dutt-vir-sanghvi-examples-of-indias-unethical-money-driven-media/

The spectrum allocation or the clearance for the airline company.. were held back due to unsuccessful dialogues between the concerned people. TATA may be willing at a reasonable price backed off when the cost did not justifiy the end..

That is where Ms. Radia comes in, she was paid Rs.60Cr to communicate a favourable decision.

In fact if we have been reading the newspaper then TATA (Mr. Ratan Tata himself) has filed a petition in supreme court saying that the tapes should be barred from public circulation as it infinges his right to privacy!!

According to him, The telephone conversation was very personal and privilaged.

The leaked tapes, infingement of privacy, means Privacy and fundamental right to enter into shady deals, when it is convenient to him.

Is it a fundamental right given by the constitution to an individual.... or because he is staying in US for the most of the time, he has applied their mindset in this context..

Some news links are given here..

http://news.oneindia.in/2010/11/29/nira-radia-tape-leak-ratan-tata-to-move-sc-today.html

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/ratan-tata-moves-sc-over-nira-radia-tape-controversy/20101129.htm

http://www.headlinesfeed.com/news/nira-radia-tape-controversy-ratan-tata-moves-sc

It is true- Dont get caught doing it.. and you will not be called a thief.

If you get caught then the whole setup was fabricated with malacious intent and we were framed will be the motto.

if still the matter persists then tell the world that everybody else is doing it..there is a foreign hand/ government has dubious plan to target us alone and we are being asked to pay again..

By the time the 15 min of fame are over, people forget about it saying "hum kya kar sakte hain" "ye to chalta he rehta hai".. the company settles the matter with govt. and after the drama of investigation is over is willing to pay the fine and regularise the theft..

Watch my words.. Everyone will go scot free..in the coming days..

Pl. note- these are muy personal opinion and also not a biased one, if anybody wishes to prove me otherwise is welcome.

All the views are based on the Television news channels, online publications /internet) and print media. We have utmost respect for the individuals (even when the hand is in the cookie jar).

[kesav 127]

It's really interesting to know every corporate wants to fix their pet man in the ministry of their interest.

We earlier know that Sunil Mittal lobbied to fix Dayanadhi Maran as telecom minister

Now we know that TATA has lobbied and fixed A. Raja as telecom minister

With this expose, The total Indian corporate world looks tainted with corruption trying to take over the country through their money power.

If even TATA can do this I don't think anyone you can trust with in the corporate world.

Isn't correct to assume that part of rs.60 Crore (an amount accepted by Radia as on date) has reached the pockets of Vir and Barkha for helping Radia?

What we don't know yet is how many more portfolios were fixed through lobbying.

How many more ministers are there who work for corporates who fixed them and not for people who have elected them?

Edited December 1, 2010 by kesav

[dkaile 1,051]

Very Interesting reading - http://www.outlookin...cle.aspx?268199

Niira Radia

Niira, Of Two Eyes

Who's this woman? An unofficial career biography of a lobbyist who flew too close to the sun...

And my stand stands vindicated, and I quote once again -

people are so naive to believe all the crap shown on tv... no business can survive in india without giving bribe... either directly or indirectly... whether tata or anyone else... some give more some less... some give in cash some in kind... thats the naked truth...

Edited December 1, 2010 by dkaile

[rajanmehta 4,056]

Even more in depth Bio of Niira Radia http://www.tehelka.c...0Coverstory.asp

[dkaile 1,051]

http://www.outlookin...cle.aspx?268071

Niira Bhajan

"When it came to spectrum, they went to Raja and paid him a bribe and got spectrum allocated."

"Uddhav's already taken funding from both groups. I'd suggest, tell Krishna Kumar to talk to Uddhav."

"Otherwise I will tell them to tell Uddhav to go after them. I don't think Congress will do much."

"I believe Maran has given about 600 crores to Dayalu, Stalin's mother."

Mere client Tatas bhi bahut beneficiary thhe (in the 2G spectrum allocation)."

"Senthil, Rahul Joshi, maine donon ki le li. You can't run stories against my clients and get away with it."

"I have a note, no, a whole dossier, on Praful Patel on the last five years jisme ye poora aspect hai."

"Inka pichhle paanch saal mein yahi attempt to tha, inko destroy karo, donon careers ko."

"Narendra Modi, Arun Jaitley, Ananth Kumar, Venkaiah Naidu, ye sab coterie hain na of Advani."

"Naresh wants to kill it (Air India), Vijay wants to kill it and Praful is not really interested."

"Raja has promised me that he will not do anything in a hurry. I made Kani speak to him as well. "

"The solicitor general, Gopal Subramaniam, I am gonna go and brief him. He hates them."

Edited December 1, 2010 by dkaile

[csmart 472]

bribe and business in India are directly related. you do business, you pay bribe.. do dont want to pay bribe, dont do business..

its true for small chaiwalla or raodside seller to top corporate houses.. u cant survive without bribe in India...its part of cost for cos...

[digitalnirvana 646]

Tata Group biggest beneficiary of out-of-turn spectrum: MP

Source: http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/cnbc-tv18-comments/tata-group-biggest-beneficiaryout-of-turn-spectrum-mp_503562.html

[raccoon 53]

More of Tata's true colours coming out in the open?

More depressing and disgusting stuff:

Government bowing to TATA pressure is now in the open

Dhamra port project let off the hook

Press release - December 16, 2010

New Delhi, December 16, 2010: If the reports on powerful corporates influencing Cabinet formation were not incriminating enough, there is another shocker. The Minister of Environment Jairam Ramesh condoned Tata Steel and L&T's violation of the Forest Conservation Act 1980 in their joint Dhamra port project in Orissa.

This shocking revelation of corporates influencing government decisions emerged from file notings recently obtained by Greenpeace through an RTI application. It is in sharp contradiction to the Ministry's own strictures against Vedanta, Adarsh Society and the Lavasa township.

The file noting by Jairam Ramesh (1) admits that there is a probable legal violation, but argues in favour of condoning it on the grounds that "the port itself is nearing completion. Had construction not commenced, we could have taken a decision unequivocally not to let the project proceed at the site whose "forest status" is disputed."

Why was the Tata-led company let off when there is sufficient evidence of a violation? The nation deserves an answer to what extent the TATAs can influence government decisions, and begs the question whether there are different rules for different violators.

"This is another shocking example of the government ignoring legal transgressions by big business houses," said Sanjiv Gopal, Oceans Campaign Manager, Greenpeace India.

"In the light of this discovery, and the scams unearthed in recent weeks, we wonder if this country is being ruled by giant corporations and the motive of profit at all costs," he said.

The nation also needs to know, especially in the light of reports that corporate lobbyists robbed the nation to the tune of Rs 1.76 lakh crore in the 2G spectrum allocation, what factors contributed in the Dhamra projects getting a go ahead instead of being penalized.

The fait accompli logic used by the Ministry sets a dangerous precedent, and contradicts the government's statements on the Adarsh Society project in Mumbai, or Vedanta's Lanjigarh refinery – both of which the MoEF has threatened to demolish/shut down for violating the law.

The note goes on to say that "…were we to consider this case today, we will have no option but to insist on clearance under FCA 1980", before then instructing that an affidavit be filed before the Supreme Court's Central Empowered Committee taking the position that the area is not forest land. This was preceded by a hand-written submission from B. Muthuraman, Vice Chairman of TATA Steel, to Mr. Ramesh, pleading TATA Steel's case and asserting the TATA group's adherence to its 'principles' (2).

In a public exposure of big corporations getting off the hook, Greenpeace issued an advertisement in leading papers today, raising concerns on the double standards of the government towards corporations (3).

The Dhamra port in Orissa has been the centre of controversy for years on account of its location adjacent to the Bhitarkanika National Park and Gahirmatha Marine Sanctuary. Evidence of violation of the Forest Conservation Act first became public in 2009. With no action taken by the MoEF, the first phase of the port is now nearing completion, and plans are underway for a massive Phase II expansion into more dangerous cargo such as oil and naptha.

The ministry's file noting is silent on the Phase II expansion of the port and the additional industries proposed in the area. Ironically, earlier in the year, the ministry had rejected clearance for a proposed power plant near Dhamra, on account of the area's ecological significance.

"What kind of message is going out to corporate India and the country at large, if all that is needed to get an illegal project regularized is to present the government with a fait accompli?" Gopal said.

Greenpeace demands punitive measures against the project and a permanent freeze on all planned industrial activity (including further port expansion) within the buffer zone of Bhitarkanika and Gahirmatha. With over 300 ports planned across the coast of mainland India, Greenpeace is also asking for stricter measures to protect ecologically critical coastal areas from short-sighted and poorly planned port development.

Source

Edited December 16, 2010 by raccoon