MNP Experience

[raccoon 53]

Dude, sorry to say but I'm afraid so much of your idealism is li'l misdirected.

Much as I hate AirHELL, I'm forced to say that the credit should go to them only, lol!

Further, I had even called the Directer General's office once and was told the same thing - that all they can do is forward it to the appropriate authority in the telco. They cannot help beyond that. He further advised me to change over to PSU telcos - MTNL/BSNL, to avoid getting into problems with private telcos,

So in short, all they are doing is functioning like a post office or a router.

Since you may not believe me, I fished this out from their site -

4.2 PG Cell of DoT is not vested with any power to penalize the service provider for not redressing the grievance to the satisfaction of the complainant or for delay in redressing the grievance.

5. In case complainant is not satisfied with the decision taken by service provider or delay in redressal of grievance at any point of time /stage in the above process (3 & 4), the complainant is free to approach to Consumer Forum of his district under Consumer Protection Act, 1986 / any other appropriate court of law/ any other appropriate forum against the service provider in view of Para 1 above.

Even though, it's the least expected out of DoT and TRAI.

I salute them for this action whole-heartedly.

Seems like your salutes should go to AirHELL.

Indian Govt. doesn't function too well, I'm afraid.

Edited February 17, 2011 by raccoon

[kesav 127]

Sorry....Clearly Airtel has admitted that they've worked only in the direction of DoT.

General grievance is more of intra-operator issue but MNP is inter-operator issue and I feel DoT has powers to dictate in case of MNP.

Forget about the portal, everyone knows it may not work.

But, ca@trai.gov.in & ddgpg-dot@nic.in certainly works as per the given information.

Least of all, I expect Airtel to work unless otherwise there has been specific stringent communication from DoT/TRAI.

Not even in best of insane mood, I can think of appreciating Airtel for this specific case.

Please give the credit where it is due.....If not(when in doubt), at least don't give credit where it should not be....

Edited February 17, 2011 by kesav

[raccoon 53]

I must say your trust in the ugly institution called government is indomitable. Now maybe that is something worth saluting.

Where do you think mails sent to ddgpg-dot@nic.in are going? Is there any difference in posting your complaint on their site or emailing them? Also, just see the email id... does it suggest something???

TRAI as we all know does not deal with individual cases. Nor are they empowered to do so. This I am sure everyone knows here, so I won't even post proof.

All these are just paper tigers.

unless otherwise there has been specific stringent communication from DoT/TRAI.

How exactly do you expect them to send this "specific stringent communication" when they simply do not have any teeth?

Do you still seriously think they even read the complaints before forwarding? If yes then one more to you.

Edited February 17, 2011 by raccoon

[kesav 127]

Sure....there's a difference.....in tracking, escalations etc.,....

What difference??

It's not relevant for this topic.

They've to read to identify to which TERM cell it has to be routed to....or at least to identify the operator to which it has to be routed to......

Stringent mail should have been send to Airtel with bunch of similar cases with warning.

"Simply do not have any teeth" is not a correct statement as for as MNP is concerned.

If govt does not have teeth who else on earth has? Come on my dear friend.....

Just don't get carried away by some lazy answer you've received once from DG office.

[raccoon 53]

Your statement "If govt does not have teeth who else on earth has?" is of course a valid statement; but one which has no answers. I have already posted the regulations above.

"Stringent mail" or whatever has zero meaning when the sender has no teeth. Accept it, its true.

The Director's statement is quite correct, given the current regulations.

Edited February 17, 2011 by raccoon

[kesav 127]

Leaving out all stuffs about DoT not having power and other things......

I'm twice as much convinced as you on the fact that Airtel will never ever reverse their statement until unless they've been forced to do do....

Let us not rule out the possibility of DoT randomly selecting a mail and taking action on it.

Let us not forget Airtel has openly accepted in their communication that they're taking action only due to DoT.

You may have not been as lucky as pasumark in dealing with DoT PG cell.

[pasumark 51]

+100 for you pasumark.

Pasumark, I beg with you to send appreciation mail to DoT and TRAI by attaching Airtel's mail.

It'll encourage them to do it further and make this country a functioning democracy.

Thanks and appreciate are the 2 things we miss out.

I really thank you Kesav for reminding me to appreciate the people who had made this possible. Or else I would have forgotten it and moved on with my work. Now I have sent my appreciation to DOT

[raccoon 53]

Leaving out all stuffs about DoT not having power and other things......

I'm twice as much convinced as you on the fact that Airtel will never ever reverse their statement until unless they've been forced to do do....

Let us not rule out the possibility of DoT randomly selecting a mail and taking action on it.

Let us not forget Airtel has openly accepted in their communication that they're taking action only due to DoT.

You may have not been as lucky as pasumark in dealing with DoT PG cell.

This thread just reminded me of one of my past experiences with AirHELL and DoT - I was using an AirHELL connection on the Friendz plan. This plan was very popular esp. with students and allowed for calling AirHELL to AirHELL at 10p/min in "happy hours" which are specific times in the afternoon and nights. Even though I hate AirHELL/Bharti perhaps more than any other brand, I was forced to maintaion my connection as a secondary connection so that friends could call me and I could call them at 10p/min, which was not possible thru any other connection.

Needless to say I kept my balance to the bare minimum, and had to recharge small amounts frequently because, besides activating various services (of course unasked for), and balance vanishing even without activating anything, AirHELL started a new trick - they started charging the base rate (Re. 1/min) in stead of 10p/min even in the beginning of the so called Happy Hours, and made my hours VERY UNHAPPY. This used to happen in the 1st half hr or so, from when the happy hours used to start. I asked my friends, and all of them told me that they have experienced the same thing.

As a final resort I wrote to DoT. As I mentioned, the mail was simply forwarded to somewhere higher up in AirHELL. The female who called me regarding my complaint to DoT 1st told me that my watch is wrong. Of course she faced stiff argument, from me (not getting into details). When she could no longer outright claim that all the watches in my house, office, pc, other phones were wrong, she had the cheek to tell me to set all my watches about 40 mins behind IST, so that they would sync. with AST (AirHELL STARNDARD TIME) and that would solve my problem! Can you beat that?

I told neither of my workplaces nor anybody I know follow AST, and if I followed it, I would be booted out. So I would like an assurance from her that AirHELL that they will offer me a good position in their company. She then gave up and just told me that it is simply not possible them to make any change in AirHELL's network time, and it is I who will have to adjust according to it.

I immediately brought it to DoT's notice, with reminders. IIRC I got one pre drafted reply only, and no more replies. I then called up the Director and was told what I have already stated in a previous post.

My complaints had zero effect on anything. I could not take that and I finally got rid of my connection. Most my my friends take all this daylight looting in their stride and find it normal, so are still with AirHELL.

Actually this is what seems to be happening - the complaints from DoT seem to be forwarded higher up the redressal hierarchy in the telco. For eg. one of my complaints against RCom went to the Corporate Office. The response from there is definitely of a different order. After that mailing them directly (other issues) had the same effect.

You are simply lucky that the telco redressed your complaint after writing to DoT. If they don't, bad luck!

Edited February 18, 2011 by raccoon

[ram _rimweb 0]

hi friends, plz help me,

am from chennai,

1) i had applied for mnp on 05.2.2011 from aitel to tata docomo... i got the upc code and applied with proper document on 5th and i got the msg - your mnp

request is forwarded to your operator.

2) on 9th evening , i got a msg from 1901 stating tht your port out request is rejected by your service provider as you have been on their network for less than 90

days. but am using this number for last 3 and half years...

3) i called airtel customer care 198 for this issue... they asked me to call docomo customer care and i did the same, docomo customer care guys said that your

service provider rejected your request plz contact them...

4) i am calling airtel customer care from 9th evening... i have talked with more than 20 customer care executives till 19th feb... after my second call , i cant able to call

using 198, its not working for me. so i am calling on 121 which is 50 paise for 3 mins... i almost wasted 80 rupees for calling customer care... no one gives the

solution and they even don know how to solve. they almost cut my call in between for more than 5 times... make me to wait for 22mins maximum. (note- am paying

for every minute).

5) i went to airtel store in anna nagar and in chetpet, they said tht we don know anything about this issue. jus call customer care...

6)called nodal officer number... not even a dialing tone heared while calling them, its totally silent.. but they deduting money from me...

7) on 17th feb i called a customer care guy, he said tht we have some retention offer, do u wanna try?? i said ok... he said we will offer u 1p/5sec to airtel and

1p/3sec to other mobile.if i cancelled my porting request... i know about airtel , so i asked about the validity of tht offer... he said its your call rate here after its not for

any particular period... then i said ok activate tht offer... if they are ready to do the same.... he said tht he will activate in 48 hours...

8) till now 198 not working, no response about mnp, no retention offer is activated... i called a guy today to know about this issue... he said tht retention offer is only

valid for 30 days. i cant do anything with 198.... they cheated in the retention too...

9) today morning i asked them (customer care and airtel store) about the retention offer activation... they said there is no offer like tht... they jus said that customer care agent gave you the wrong information ...

dear friends help me in this issue...

Edited February 19, 2011 by ram _rimweb

[raccoon 53]

Dude, what do you expect from AirHELL? Why do you think we call it AirHELL?

As discussed above, please try writing to PG cell of DoT and TRAI as mentioned above. Who knows, you just might get lucky like Pasumark. If you don't, then you are on your own. Your only option will be to take them to court.

Rather than doing all this, I would seriously suggest you leave the number with AirHELL and run like HELL. Just get a fresh new conn. with a better operator.

Edited February 18, 2011 by raccoon

[swamis 1]

My Experience

29/01/2011 Applied to Vodafone Gallery for porting my RCDMA number

Nothing up to 13/02/2011; no SMS, no confirmations, no calls, etc.

Tried calling both call centres - No status update from either

14/02/2011 Received an SMS from VF about receipt of documents. Called CC and got the same response of no status update

15/02/2011 Visited the VF gallery and was advised that the porting would be completed in 2 days

17/02/2011 Received an SMS confirming that the number would be ported shortly

18/02/2011 Morning; The number had indeed been ported to VF. However all the reliance calls still being received in RCDMA. Could recharge through the VF website. No issues with any recharge. By evening even the RCDMA calls are now received in VF. Although outgoing stills functions in RCDMA (now switched off).

Overall need patience with the porting.

[Saiesh 12]

Take them to consumer forum, and communicate with them in writting only

[abhisathe 8]

Hi all

My Idea number has finally been ported to Reliance today. Its been nearly a month since I applied for the MNP first. I succeeded to get it ported in my second attempt. In the entire experience, one thing I realised is that mobile service providers are hell bent to foil your MNP attempt.

There was no cooperation from my donor despite several written requests, nor from the MCH, who is supposed to be a neutral player and a facilitator. Like several of us, I finally wrote to Hon. Minister for Telecommunications, Kapil Sibal, the DoT top bosses and this is when the process suddenly got into motion.

At a time when I had given up hope for my second MNP request as even the 15-day validity of my second UPC had lapsed, suddenly yesterday morning I got SMSes from MCH informing that my request has been accepted and the disruption in service will occur in the night. It happened on time, but the reconnection to Reliance took almost 14 hours.

During the process, right from my application to final MNP, the Reliance guys have stood by me, trying every solution to get the things done. Of course, one would say that it was their job to help me since they were getting a new customer. But I could sense that they also realised that my MNP was getting unnecessarily delayed and helped me a lot.

I personally feel that we should start an online petition addressed to Mr Sibal on making MCH more assertive and unbiased and give them punitive powers against mobile service providers who are putting spanner in the MNP process. We should also ask the DoT to get into action and act against complaints.

My MNP experience in brief:

First UPC generated: Jan 19

First application: Jan 21

Rejection of application: Jan 29

Second UPC generated: Feb 1

Second application: Feb 1

Rejection of application: Jan 29 (pls understand, MCH rejected it three days before my application)

Subsequently, mail sent to DoT, Nodal and Appelate officers of Idea and Reliance. And lastly to Kapil Sibal.

SMS for Acceptance: Friday, Feb 18

Disruption in service: Feb 18 night at 11 pm

Restoration of service in Reliance: Feb 19 at 3 pm.

Edited February 19, 2011 by abhisathe

[raccoon 53]

Sibal and TRAI very well know what is going on. But they have chosen to do nothing yet. They have devised a system which is so obviously full of holes and no redressal. It seems they themselves are not going to get the act right unless someone puts pressure on them and demands to know why they aren't doing their job right. For that I'd suggest writing to the PM or better still a PIL or something since our PM is an acknowledged lame duck.

Edited February 19, 2011 by raccoon

[digitalnirvana 646]

During the process, right from my application to final MNP, the Reliance guys have stood by me, trying every solution to get the things done. Of course, one would say that it was their job to help me since they were getting a new customer. But I could sense that they also realised that my MNP was getting unnecessarily delayed and helped me a lot.

Good it worked out for you and glad to see RCOM CC being supportive, mightbe MNP has made them to change for better.

[KumaarShah 143]

I would differ with you on this issue,

MNP worldwide (as was reported here on RW somewhere else) has lots of problems still, so the system itself is faulty. It has nothing to do with INDIA. Maybe yes to the extent that operators try not to let their customers jump to the other side. But beyond that, it seems to be a technology issue rather than anything else.

Maybe my perception is wrong.

[raccoon 53]

I am MAINLY referring to deliberate acts of the telcos to sabotage the system by withholding port-out requests. Just think about it, they have been accused of delaying MNP for years. Does it take a genius to foresee that they will not resort to such dirty tricks to prevent port-outs? Still, the system is such that there is zero accountability and no penalty for wrongly withholding or denying port-out requests.

If just this one factor is addressed (I'm not saying other issues should not be), so many people will be saved so much harassment and expense and will also help healthy competition.

[KumaarShah 143]

You are no doubt, right in your own way....

We have about 14 (is it 14 or less) operators in each circle, just think about that also. Surely an operation of this magnitude will have manifold problems. We have completed about 30 days only, it will surely take some more time to get ironed and come crisp out. Wait for some more time.

I do not doubt that some operators are not letting their customers go so easily. Maybe this issue also will get addressed soon enough. If you remember, I was always sceptical of MNP ever coming in at all - even as late as December 2010. I remember having posted earlier that MNP will get delayed eternally by all our scheming operators - come what may. Even after the Haryana experiment, I posted that operators will resort to the 'failure-there' conspiracy and block MNP eternally. But still, we got MNP.

[abhisathe 8]

In criminal law, there is a term called `mensrea’. The literal meaning is guilty mind. While pronouncing someone guilty, jurors take into account whether the crime involved mensrea. A crime committed by a person who did not have that itention is not treated as strictly as the crime committed with intention (or mensrea).

I agree with comments above that MNP is still new and will take time to stabilise, and hence it is wrong to condemn it altogether. But what I wish to tell is that one has to look into the aspect of mensrea when you look at the chaos and confusion in the process, the large number of rejection of applications etc.

Are these issues occurring just out of disorderliness of system or because some one is benefitting out of it? And if there is mensrea, then one needs to punish those responsible.

You are no doubt, right in your own way....

We have about 14 (is it 14 or less) operators in each circle, just think about that also. Surely an operation of this magnitude will have manifold problems. We have completed about 30 days only, it will surely take some more time to get ironed and come crisp out. Wait for some more time.

I do not doubt that some operators are not letting their customers go so easily. Maybe this issue also will get addressed soon enough. If you remember, I was always sceptical of MNP ever coming in at all - even as late as December 2010. I remember having posted earlier that MNP will get delayed eternally by all our scheming operators - come what may. Even after the Haryana experiment, I posted that operators will resort to the 'failure-there' conspiracy and block MNP eternally. But still, we got MNP.

[shrik 9]

In statistics, there is the concept of "selection bias", in which there is an error in choosing the individuals or groups to take part in a scientific study. Before you rush to claim that there is a "the chaos and confusion in the process, the large number of rejection of applications etc", what numbers are we looking at, statistically? According to TRAI, more than 1.7 million subscribers have successfully done porting. Compared to that number, the number of complaints you find on this board is miniscule. Since very few people are likely to report a successful port, but most people will make some sort of noise over an unsuccessful port, a selection bias comes into play.

It would be interesting if we could get some official figures on the number of complaints lodged on MNP and compare that against the total number of successful hassle-free ports as a percentage before we pass judgment on orderliness of the system and scale of rejection.

[kesav 127]

@abhisathe, I hope you've written appreciation mail to Sibal & DoT.

If not, I beg you to do it ASAP.

These small appreciations can only help them to move faster and stronger against these looters(mobile operators) who are hell bend on making MNP not to work.

[rajanmehta 4,056]

In statistics, there is the concept of "selection bias", in which there is an error in choosing the individuals or groups to take part in a scientific study. Before you rush to claim that there is a "the chaos and confusion in the process, the large number of rejection of applications etc", what numbers are we looking at, statistically? According to TRAI, more than 1.7 million subscribers have successfully done porting. Compared to that number, the number of complaints you find on this board is miniscule. Since very few people are likely to report a successful port, but most people will make some sort of noise over an unsuccessful port, a selection bias comes into play.

It would be interesting if we could get some official figures on the number of complaints lodged on MNP and compare that against the total number of successful hassle-free ports as a percentage before we pass judgment on orderliness of the system and scale of rejection.

That's a very rational point .... +1

[raccoon 53]

In statistics, there is the concept of "selection bias", in which there is an error in choosing the individuals or groups to take part in a scientific study. Before you rush to claim that there is a "the chaos and confusion in the process, the large number of rejection of applications etc", what numbers are we looking at, statistically? According to TRAI, more than 1.7 million subscribers have successfully done porting. Compared to that number, the number of complaints you find on this board is miniscule. Since very few people are likely to report a successful port, but most people will make some sort of noise over an unsuccessful port, a selection bias comes into play.

It would be interesting if we could get some official figures on the number of complaints lodged on MNP and compare that against the total number of successful hassle-free ports as a percentage before we pass judgment on orderliness of the system and scale of rejection.

True, we could use some reliable statistics, but who knows what they are describing as successful porting. Were these people harassed in some way? Was the process delayed? Were there phones disconnected beyond 2 hours? etc, etc. I guess unless we know this, its difficult to comment.

[ravi_patent 28]

confluence of law and applied mathematics..i am loving it

@shrik

you have a valid point but .having experinced as to how gsm cartel used to treat in coming calls from rcdma/bsnl on their networks makes any one suspicious..

i take the side of Abhijit.+1 to u dear

Edited February 19, 2011 by ravi_patent

[KumaarShah 143]

One more point is

The MNP process at a retailer's outlet is very difficult - I mean the SMS that has to be sent by the retailer for a port-in customer. This SMS format is so confusing that a number of errors (as have been reported here) crop up and we think that the operators are delaying the MNP process. I found this from the neighbourhood retailer, not too sure about the authenticity or otherwise of it. From a WW or WWE, we assume that the CCE is educated enough to correctly type out the MNP SMS, but mistakes can occur there also.

Let us give them some more time is all I would like to say. I am not saying that the GSM cartel as also RCOM are not indulging in any mischief.