India Against Corruption - Parivartan

[drmadhu 87]

^^^

Govt provide lot of funds for road and electricity each but all funds are gone in hand of corrupted people.

So all thing behind corruption.

Edited August 20, 2011 by vijaymalhotra_2007

[phonegeek 588]

^ If the people are corrupt, they become so because they have no other option, on the other side, these politicians and bureaucrats became corrupt because of their personal gain and no fear of law.

Sitting in a glass house and pelting stone to others?

Who is preventing the aam admi to become non-corrupt? They don't have any option? Ask yourself the question once again and you will surely feel ashamed for this comment.

What for the Left are supporting this movement? For political gain of-course. They raised kick-back issue during Bofors episode against Amitabh Bachchan and forced him to resign, and now they are 'friends'! Is it 'enemy's enemy is my friend' theory? Isn't Amitabh Bachchan using this platform against his rival family? And what was the view of the Left parties on Guru Ravishankar's 'Art of Living' or against Baba Ramdev? For what common interest they have come together: 'fight against corruption' or some different interest?

Everybody of us wants corruption-free India. But who are supporting Anna or Kiran Bedi, just think over it. It's my request.

Dear Sougata Ji,

Let me explain you:

1. I had asked the question again to me and I didnt find anything for which I should feel ashamed of. Let me give you a practical example, I had to get my passport ready as I have to go out. You must be aware how many agents you can find outside passport office to get your work done for fees(this fess will go to officer's pocket as bribe). I didnt went to them and gone directly to the office. For 3 days, I have to daily go to passport office, stand in queue for 5 hours(I am a service class man and you can just think how would I managed in the office), and still my work didnt got completed. Everytime I was forced to bring some document or other. Finally as a compulsion have to go to agent and get my work completed without giving any additional documents. This is just one example which I had given. This was compulsion and not option for me.

I am supporting this movement because it will bring down the corruption. I had read the difference between the Govt’s bill and Lokpal bill. I am sure that it will atleast bring the fear in the eyes of people asking bribe which is not present at this moment. You go to any govt office and they will ask for the bribe as if it is their right!

Now I could not understand the logic that if any movement is supported by any political party, I should not support it! Man there are hundreds of political parties and if they support any common movement, I should withdrew my support for it? I am not just supporting the movement because it is supported by Amitabh! I am supporting because I really feel that this lokpal bill can change lot of things.

As a common man, I should appeal all to support this movement irrespective of which political party supports it or not supports it.

Sougata Ji, I will not ask you to be ashamed of what you have said since its your opinion and I truly respect it.

Thanks

[abhi.r 95]

^ If the people are corrupt, they become so because they have no other option, on the other side, these politicians and bureaucrats became corrupt because of their personal gain and no fear of law.

Sitting in a glass house and pelting stone to others?

Who is preventing the aam admi to become non-corrupt? They don't have any option? Ask yourself the question once again and you will surely feel ashamed for this comment.

What for the Left are supporting this movement? For political gain of-course. They raised kick-back issue during Bofors episode against Amitabh Bachchan and forced him to resign, and now they are 'friends'! Is it 'enemy's enemy is my friend' theory? Isn't Amitabh Bachchan using this platform against his rival family? And what was the view of the Left parties on Guru Ravishankar's 'Art of Living' or against Baba Ramdev? For what common interest they have come together: 'fight against corruption' or some different interest?

Everybody of us wants corruption-free India. But who are supporting Anna or Kiran Bedi, just think over it. It's my request.

Hum chori karte hai taaki hum apne pariwar ka pet bhar sake. Aur hum ye chori kisi shauk se nahi karte. Majboori mein aa kar karte hai. Sochte hai ki agar nahi kia to kal humara aur humare pariwaar ka kya hoga.

A. Raja/Kalmadi.... unki kya majboori thi?

[csmart 472]

a must read... I received IN MAIL..

Original Post...

Why Anna Hazare should not win this battle

..... by CP Surendran18 August 2011

A most comical anti-corruption opera is being staged all over the country under the leadership of Anna Hazare, who in his moral tyranny is actually beginning to look like Mahatma Gandhi. This itself is a bit of laugh: when a man wants to be someone else eventually transmigration of the soul and nose happens. It only remains for Anna to hold the Dandi March.

But the real reason why this anti-corruption campaign is looking like an over-stretched Johnny Lever joke is that the people largely constituting the movement have happily externalized corruption as if it's an event happening outside themselves.

The fact is that the petite bourgeoisie-auto rickshaw drivers, and constables, if Haryana Police Sangathan support for Jan Lok Pal's bill is any indication, and low paid government officials and assorted elements-have no idea that they are very much part of the corruption. They believe it is a disease outside them, primarily endemic to the government and its institutions, when they are active players in the drama.

The others who are a part of the movement, including the youngsters, who this lookist country swears by, are there for an opportunity to hold candles and chant Sarojini Naidu kind of poems which normally begin: O, deliverer…

The youth will hold a candle and even burn a finger from the dripping wax, but when it comes to admission, if an IIT director or an engineering college dean will accept cash for seats, they will gladly part with it.

For one with passing interest in the Lokpal politics, the only major difference in the bills drafted by the government and Anna apart from bringing the PM into the bill's ambit, seems to be that the government wants to set up a separate investigative agency while Anna and his team want an existing investigating agency like the CBI to report to the Lokpal committee.

That would eventually mean the Lokpal evolving into a parallel power vortex, and might make Parliament redundant.

In other words, those whom you elected will not be of as much consequence as those self-appointed or government nominated Lokpal committee members.

That is a fraught process, and actually might create more unaccountability and corruption.

That is one part of the joke. The other, equally entertaining part has been the Congress-led UPA government's complete and visible bankruptcy of ideas to tackle an agitation outside party structures. Much the same happened before the Emergency when Jayaparakash Naryan led a movement that cut across party lines against the Indira Gandhi led Congress government, which panicked and declared an Emergency.

Anna's movement is mostly apolitical. And the support it has drawn, for all its faults, is an indication how political parties and other democratic institutions have failed to represent people, or inspire faith. Across the world, memberships of political parties are decreasing. Alternate people's groupings with environmental and ethical themes are gaining strength. In Europe and America where democracies are institutionally stronger and fairer than in India, this could be explained as an evolution.

But, in India where fairness woven into the system is at best fraying, when a movement is directed primarily against its institutions and the political party in power as well as the ones in Opposition are fumbling in their response, a movement like this can have dire consequences. Clearly, the parties have failed to represent the people, which is why a moral tyrant like Anna is holding the government to ransom. When institutions fail, individuals take up their role. .And if Anna wins, the nature of Indian politics will change.

It'd be fun to see who were the advisors who landed a wimp like Prime Minister Manmohan Singh into the Lok Pal soup.

A party that can't argue its case against a retired army truck driver whose only strength really is a kind of stolid integrity and a talent for skipping meals doesn't deserve to be in power. Power goes to people who love it. Anna Hazare loves nothing more than power.

Edited August 20, 2011 by csmart

[sougatadc 358]

My dear Sourabh,

Can you say with utmost surety that the agent or the officer whom you paid money for getting passport aren't there in Anna's rally? You cannot.

You cannot because we all are corrupt in varying degrees. The degree of being corrupt depends upon the opportunity to become one. The politicians are visibly more corrupt only because they have the power and chance to handle more money and moreover they are not accounted. Many people are 'honest' only because they don't have the opportunity to become 'riskless corrupt'.

Please don't forget, giving bribe is also one kind of corruption. If all the passport applicants stop bribing, will not corruption vanish? The officers will be compelled to be honest. But, alas, we all will promote corruption in one or the other way and cry foul feigning honesty. This is not good.

[phonegeek 588]

Do you feel that all the people will stop giving bribe ? Will that ever be happen ? Certainly not. Do you have instance where any bill was passed with 100% Ayes?

If only 250 odd people cannot have same opinion then how come you are expecting all the people to have same opinion of not giving bribe?

No one enjoys giving bribe but since due to one limitations or other, people have to bribe, right ?

I dont think even after passing the bill no one will ask for bribe and people will stop giving bribe, but atleast people will think 10 times before asking and people giving bribe.

We are discussing only about bribes at small level, what about scams like CWG and 2G, (quoting only recent ones).Have you ever heard of anyone got jail for doing that kind of scams? Lokpal bill will ensure that guilty is punished in timely manner, one of many reforms this bill will bring.

So I again appeal to all to support this bill.

Thanks

[I_C_U 10]

It is no where claimed that this movement will eradicate corruption 100% from the grass root level and frankly no one expects that to happen overnight.

But why not support a movement for change. We acknowledge something is bad, but that is too complex and too big to change... so don't we ever try to change things. Cant we acknowledge the opportunity as a start of the process of change.

The whole argument that 'we our selves have to change to stop corruption. Stop giving bribes etc etc.' is all too good. But practically even that has to be collective and simultaneous effort and a mass movement. It is necessary because corruption has become systematic rot. If single person here and there will stop paying bribe then he will become victim of the system.

I didnt give donation for admission in school for child and missed the opportunity and was called 'kanjoos' and 'irresponsible' in matter of child's future. Nothing else changed, donation is still very much in-thing.

Go for Centralized service tax registration, 15 point list of documents is prescribed, every document is proper and ready, but your application will be rejected on some or other pretext because 10k is asking rate of 'unofficial fees'. This is situation where we are forced to be corrupt.

Same in case of refund of VAT, the commissioner of appeal ask of bribe to sustain the legitimate appeal as if it is his birth right. The confidence with which he ask for bribe shows that there is no fear of law. If he rejects the appeal, we have the option to go to tribunal. But the case will come up for hearing after 3 years. That way we lose on interest on the sum of refund. What option do we have? The system forces to be corrupt.

What is wrong in asking for strong measure/law as well as an strong enforcement agency to punish the corrupt? what is wrong is asking for a citizen charter in govt. offices? Small corruption may not end, but atleast the ray of hope is that big scamsters will get probed and punished in an independent manner.

Lets start somewhere...

[csmart 472]

you are not looking at the other side of it. because of lokpal and other such threat, entire bureaucracy has stopped working. earlier all those who were taking bold decisions are not coming forward. there are large number of approval pending for purchase required by NTPC, Power grid etc. this all ultimately affects development of nation. today it is simple to make allegation and start inquiry against any body.

i agree that we need a system whereby cases are cleared in timely manner. but for that, not only govt, but also lawyers should be blame. look at famous Kasab trial. his lawyer said he did not believe the affidavits and want to examine each and every witness. this process is time consuming and case prolongs. the lawyers are champions for this.

[sougatadc 358]

@ Sourabh, I ask you another question.

Have you paid royalties for all the mp3 songs you are listening on your beloved hTc EVO 4G?

Aren't you downloading and using cracked applications on your phone?

There is option to be honest. If you cannot conquer the smallest natural instinct here, how can you expect others?

Isn't it पर उपदेश कुशल बहुतेरे?

I'm reiterating, nobody is against stopping corruption at the top-most level. But the charity should also begin at home. Just by flocking at a dharna will not do anything, if all of us remain dishonest.

[phonegeek 588]

So If I havent paid royalty on mp3, I did the same crime as A Raja and other have done!

And Since I havent paid the royalty, I should not support a bill which will make the whole society clean! And if I start paying royalty, there will be no scams!

It seems that you havent participated in any of your so called "dharna". May its for you a dharna, for me and thousands others, I see doing something for my country.

Rather than sitting at home and cribbing others, I would definitely do whatever is possible from my end.

[rajanmehta 4,056]

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[sougatadc 358]

Go for Centralized service tax registration, 15 point list of documents is prescribed, every document is proper and ready, but your application will be rejected on some or other pretext because 10k is asking rate of 'unofficial fees'. This is situation where we are forced to be corrupt.

Read Service Tax Rules. According to Rule 4(5) or 4(5A) of Service Tax Rules,1994, the registration is to be granted within 7days of application; if not granted within that period, it is deemed to have been granted.

One assessee, after applying for registration under Rule 4(1), can go on doing his business without any fear of breaking Rule 4(1). And now, entire system of application and granting of registration as well as submission of returns are online in ACES, it is easier.

So If I havent paid royalty on mp3, I did the same crime as A Raja and other have done!

And Since I havent paid the royalty, I should not support a bill which will make the whole society clean! And if I start paying royalty, there will be no scams!

My dear Sourabh, in our country not paying royalty is not considered as a big crime but people overseas pay hefty fines for that. Read this news and this also.

How can you do for your country if you don't pay the royalties to the Singers, the musicians, the producers, the music companies?

Raja is a criminal, so are Kalmadi or Kanimozi. And many more such criminals are yet to be nabbed. But what I want to say is people, who are not honest are crying foul about corruption, but are not ready to correct themselves.

In our level we do piracy, bribe officers, break laws to get benefited. Many of us would do what Raja/Kalmadi/Kanimozi have done if got the opportunities. We are more honest (less corrupt) compared to them because we didn't get the riskless opportunity.

Can't we raise a call to make all of us corruption-free for a much much better Bharat?

[I_C_U 10]

Read Service Tax Rules. According to Rule 4(5) or 4(5A) of Service Tax Rules,1994, the registration is to be granted within 7days of application; if not granted within that period, it is deemed to have been granted.

One assessee, after applying for registration under Rule 4(1), can go on doing his business without any fear of breaking Rule 4(1). And now, entire system of application and granting of registration as well as submission of returns are online in ACES, it is easier.

Thats the thing in rules. But when application itself is not processed and rejected, then at the time of payment into treasury the ST number is not accepted and payment gets delayed which causes other implications. and this has happened.

Now the things are on ACES so its smooth. Still one recent incidence to share. Just a month back we amended our excise registration online. New RC was generated online. That was fine. but to get the physical stamped and signed RC from the AC, we had to pay 7k till then it was not delivered.

What in case of C Form. anyone engaged in interstate business would know how much have to be paid to get C form on time. Now where in this are we asking for extra favour, we are not asking for Fake C Form, but give legitimate C forms on time at least.

Can't we raise a call to make all of us corruption-free for a much much better Bharat?

I completely agree on this. and this should happen soon. Heck we dont need invitation on this, lets pledge it that if system dont compel us we wont pay.

Edited August 20, 2011 by I_C_U

[sougatadc 358]

^^^

Why you crave for a signed and stamped RC from the Assistant Commissioner? If the ST2 is generated online, it has passed the digital approval from the Assistant Commissioner. Sans the approval/ digital signature, any online RC will not be generated. You just sit tight with that. Nobody can do anything on this. If issuing of physical RC is delayed purposely, tell the Range Officer that there lies no fault of yours, you will go for manual submission of returns under protest. This surely will help.

[manishag 17]

if you know the rules then you can get your work done.

like i got my wife's passport issues under tatkal initially i applied it under normal scheme but after 2 weeks i needed to it urgently so i went for tatkal in delhi. initially RPO didn't allowed me for this conversion when i meet the senior officials they agreed for this conversion after that RPO informed that earlier file is missing so passport can not be converted peon asked for 5k for this. i refuesed to pay this and meet the senior peoples again and i got the passport next day. even LIO didn't asked for money.

similarly i lost my RC and the DL i went to Transport Office and i followed the process and i got both the documents issued.

so this way i didn't paid the bribe anywhere on the other hand promoted for the corruption by because i paid the Rs 20 to Notary for attestation of each document for duplicate RC and Driving License despite the fact that Supreme court has fixed much lower rate. but in delhi every notary has same rate you don't have option other then paying Rs 20 for each stamping.

come to noida/delhi traffic is horrible because of corruption during common wealth games we have seen the same roads there was no traffic violation and i never faced any traffic problem. but after games again traffic issue.

There is illegal car/bike parking has been created on both sides of roads they don't have any authorize parking agreement. during weekdays they will charge you Rs 20 for car and Rs 10 for bike where as they will give you parking ticket of Ts 10 and Rs 5 respectively because this is the official rate of parking for authorize parking. you are forced to pay them because if you leave your vehicle without paying them you can find damages to vehicle and if you complain to police they didn't listen to you because they have huge share in this illegal parking.

come down to sector 125 noida HCL office outside this you can see how they park the vehicle on road they turn 4 lane road to single lane which causes huge traffic problem in that area during peak hours. I have never seen any toeing van to toe there cars the fact two police where as you can see the van in other offices in the same area. this shows how the corruption is working in india. all of us responsible for the same but many a times we don't have place to complain against them. we need something like lokpal to whom we can complain

[rajanmehta 4,056]

Govt's Lokpal Bill V/s Jan Lokpal Bill: Comparative Chart >> http://www.box.net/s...zxf35c2znx4xi3j

Presentation: Lokpal Bill: Views: Team Anna & Government >> http://www.box.net/s...rpc3l3btzk6ore8

Jan Lokpal Bill: A Detailed Analysis Dated 21st August 2011 >> http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/docs/Jan_Lokpal_Bill-A-Detailed_Analysis.doc

Edited August 20, 2011 by rajanmehta

[sougatadc 358]

Here is android's application for 'India Against Corruption'

This can be downloaded and installed directly from market also.

The features of this application are:

• Latest News
  
• Real Streaming Videos
  
• Polling
  
• Q&A
  
• Latest About Lokpal
  
• Info About Lokpal
  
• Volunteer Registration
  
• Latest Event
  

[Rahul Always 87]

If someone wants to do something really for their country, go ahead and join the Armed forces. For all their fault, that is one institution that has more or less withstood all the faults of society and truly evolved into an apolitical and completely secular organisation, something that is simply impossible to see anywhere else.

Standing in dharnas and shouting slogans does seem wonderful, especially with all the media coverage. The candle lit marches are extremely romantic and it seems like all this would persuade the people in power to just stop being corrupt. It simply will not happen.

@Saurabh, it is best not to take things personally in any argument. What others were trying to say is, unless you root out corruption at the grass root levels, things will never improve. And there is no comparison of crimes. Even downloading of mp3 is a crime since you have not paid royalty but yes when compared to the millions that are being looted, it does seem trivial.

The day we make people realise that asking for bribes is not going to get you anywhere, the country is going to improve. It has been proved that applications for passports that were being held up for trivial reasons suddenly got approved the moment the applicant went to the passport officer with an RTI application in his hand. Maybe we just need to see how we can utilise existing tools and weapons available to improve the system overall.

[amitnsonu 72]

heard on some news channel that delhi police has notice a drop in criminal activity in delhi..

Anna effect ?

Edited August 22, 2011 by amitnsonu

[@mitJ@in 256]

When thousands of people are on road, who dare to commit criminal activitied?

[Rahul Always 87]

^^^ Maybe it is easier to commit crimes? Everyone out on the streets and no one at home? Robbers' paradise!

[digitalnirvana 646]

If someone wants to do something really for their country, go ahead and join the Armed forces. For all their fault, that is one institution that has more or less withstood all the faults of society and truly evolved into an apolitical and completely secular organisation, something that is simply impossible to see anywhere else.

Standing in dharnas and shouting slogans does seem wonderful, especially with all the media coverage. The candle lit marches are extremely romantic and it seems like all this would persuade the people in power to just stop being corrupt. It simply will not happen.

@Saurabh, it is best not to take things personally in any argument. What others were trying to say is, unless you root out corruption at the grass root levels, things will never improve. And there is no comparison of crimes. Even downloading of mp3 is a crime since you have not paid royalty but yes when compared to the millions that are being looted, it does seem trivial.

The day we make people realise that asking for bribes is not going to get you anywhere, the country is going to improve. It has been proved that applications for passports that were being held up for trivial reasons suddenly got approved the moment the applicant went to the passport officer with an RTI application in his hand. Maybe we just need to see how we can utilise existing tools and weapons available to improve the system overall.

True but it will not happen by magic. One has to start somewhere. Corruption is there in all walks of life and will continue to remain. That does not mean we do not support the steps being taken to weed out corruption. I do not care if marches and slogans and fasts work or not. I support them because they are trying to do something. Something is better than nothing. We all like to sit on the fence and criticize, if we cannot add anything then let us not detract from the people who are taking part in these activities, it does not matter they are successful or not, what matters is the spirit of trying to make things better.

Quoting my employer's group motto.

Today is another perfect day, to defy the

world’s naysayers.

Today, we will think bigger than our size.

Today, we will refuse to accept limitations.

Today, we will not be held back by the past.

Today, we will focus on the future —

and never, ever blink.

Today, we will break down another barrier.

Scoff at another convention.

And use alternative thinking.

To solve another previously unsolvable problem.

Today, we will accomplish something

astounding. And in the process,

change someone’s life for the better.

Today, we will set an example for the world.

With boldness.

With confidence.

With relentless optimism.

Good Morning.

Today is another perfect day...

to Rise.

[Rahul Always 87]

@DL I agree that we have to make a start somewhere. But unfortunately, something that I have seen in most walks of life is, it does not concern me, I will not involve myself. And that is true across the board, in most of the situations of life.

If we really wanted to make a difference, let us stop voting for candidates on the basis of caste/religion/region etc. How many of us actually are willing to stand in the line of a election, be it the Parliamentary elections or the Panchayat and actually vote for someone whom we feel would improve our lives rather than simply because he/she belongs to own caste or section of society.

Corruption is a universal phenomenon and does not differ much across nations. However, the one difference that has been apparent in other countries and our own country is that, here people do not care about national "prestige" and "pride" and all that matters is "how much I can make" in any deal. The Commonwealth games was a classic example of this. Compare our preparations for the CW games where infrastructure was not ready even at the last minute and the British preparations for the Olympics where all infrastructure is already in place. So even if corruption exists, national pride and prestige make sure that the country's image does not suffer in front of the entire world.

We need to weed out this choking phenomenon of corruption from our lives slowly and steadily. Let us hope our nation becomes strong as a result of whatever campaigns are in progress. That is, provided our political class are willing to let things slip out of their grasp and people have the final say.

[rajanmehta 4,056]

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[Genius 817]

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