Buying a new car? Discuss here!

[dkaile 1,051]

How I wish Liva diesel would come with Jazz or Brio interiors! That would be a dream car

Toyota dealerships offer very high level of accesorisation for the Liva to keep costs as low as they possibly can seeing the cost involved in the essentials as a large body and a quality diesel mill. Spend 20K extra and you may get Jazz rivaling interiors; spend 50k more and you will get an integrated GPS system based touchscreen music system along with double padded seats and other bells and whistles. You see Toyota is shrewd market savvy company. They have given the after-market accessory shops in mind too. They knew they could get away with poor seats but not poor space and poor engine. So in the end it depends upon what you want. A nice looking car that will cost you a bomb in fuel costs and maintenance 5 years down the line or a solid dependable product which may not look all that shiny but will last and last till you drop. The extra money that you spend goes into the essentials which are not immediately visible to the naked eye but will be realised some years down the line. Remember the Qualis anyone?

Edited September 20, 2011 by dkaile

[csmart 472]

no doubt about toyota engines. be it qualis or any other car. maruti enjoys the loyalty because it has excellent service network. and besies all, it gives entry level cars like 800 or Alto. so first timers buy these cars and enjoy it. and when there is time to upgrade, maruti is natural choice. the other benefit is that maruti provides cars that range from 3L to 10L and satisfies every one.

[amtrag 20]

no doubt about toyota engines. be it qualis or any other car. maruti enjoys the loyalty because it has excellent service network. and besies all, it gives entry level cars like 800 or Alto. so first timers buy these cars and enjoy it. and when there is time to upgrade, maruti is natural choice. the other benefit is that maruti provides cars that range from 3L to 10L and satisfies every one.

To add to that, would also like to mention that Maruti and Toyota were two different segments altogether and there never was any competition between the two. It is only now, post launch of Etios/Liva, that Toyota has entered into Maruti's turf.

And one more very strong point in favour of maruti is that it's models are "time-tested" which plays a very important role in Indian buyer's minds while deciding. "Give me an average quality product and I'll be OK , but I dont want to take risk with a new brand/model". Somewhat like non-tech savvy people still buying Nokia smart phones in these days of Android.

[dkaile 1,051]

To add to that, would also like to mention that Maruti and Toyota were two different segments altogether and there never was any competition between the two. It is only now, post launch of Etios/Liva, that Toyota has entered into Maruti's turf.

And one more very strong point in favour of maruti is that it's models are "time-tested" which plays a very important role in Indian buyer's minds while deciding. "Give me an average quality product and I'll be OK , but I dont want to take risk with a new brand/model". Somewhat like non-tech savvy people still buying Nokia smart phones in these days of Android.

That is what is troubling Suzuki and other competitors that Toyota is entering it's bread and butter territory. The "T" brand has the product and quality to wipe out even big shots like Suzuki. See the world market sales figures to understand what I am talking. Just to give you an example, in a country say like South Africa which is a developing nation like India (slightly better off than us and about 10 years ahead of us in development), and has car sales figure much less than India - http://bestsellingca...1-year-to-date/ . These figures are a real eye opener. In India, Suzuki alone is selling nearly more than 1.5 times (77K) as many cars as they sell in toto (about 51k) in South Africa. Their top selling car (VW Polo) sells just 3.3K units followed by Toyota Hilux at 2.9K! Toyota Fortuner (1.7K) is selling nearly as much as the FIGO (1.8k). There's even the Tata Indica in the list but at only 135 units. No sign of Suzuki except the Swift at no. 49 at a paltry 131 units and SX4 at no. 64 (119 units). Once our market matures, we too will junk inferior products for durability and which provide us better value over a longer period of time.

And "time tested" & "new model"!! Well my analytical mind couldn't help laughing at that. Toyota makes cars which are best sellers all over the world. In the harshest of climates and baddest of roads. Till now we (Indian Market) were just a blimp on their overall radar at their Japan head quarters. If you want to see how well a Toyota product lasts in India, read my 7 year ownership report here - http://www.team-bhp....rt-55000km.html . Their products will outlasts sometimes even their owners. You will get bored and eventually sell them off because they perform so flawlessly.

Edited September 20, 2011 by dkaile

[amtrag 20]

@dkaile:

"Time-tested" and "new model" are the mentalities that the Indian public in general has. Just imagine a guy in a tier-3 town who can barely manage an Alto that too on EMIs. Most of his friend circle would also be of the same social status. Say he wants to upgrade his car to Wagon-R/Swift and you suggest him 'Toyota". If I were in his place, I would say "yeah, I've heard Toyota makes very good cars and possibly better than Maruti, but I do not want to take any chances. None of my friends own a Toyota from whom to get a feedback and I don't know how will be the after sales service. Atleast I am sure in case of maruti that it provides good and cheap after sales."

That is where Maruti has an edge. Of course I'm not at all disputing the fact that Toyota is much better than a Maruti.

The sales figs of Swift at 131 units in SA reminds me of Linea's India sales figs of an odd 100 in August. That does'nt make Swift or Linea the worst cars in their categories just because some other models are selling in huge numbers.

Why Suzuki is selling only ~100 units of a model in SA? I think the answer lies in your post itself. When suzuki is able to sell 1.5 times the size of S african market in India, why should they bother to put in so much effort to become one of the top 3 there and then end up selling just 2000-3000 units.

Edited September 20, 2011 by amtrag

[dkaile 1,051]

@dkaile:

"Time-tested" and "new model" are the mentalities that the Indian public in general has. Just imagine a guy in a tier-3 town who can barely manage an Alto that too on EMIs. Most of his friend circle would also be of the same social status. Say he wants to upgrade his car to Wagon-R/Swift and you suggest him 'Toyota". If I were in his place, I would say "yeah, I've heard Toyota makes very good cars and possibly better than Maruti, but I do not want to take any chances. None of my friends own a Toyota from whom to get a feedback and I don't know how will be the after sales service. Atleast I am sure in case of maruti that it provides good and cheap after sales."

That is where Maruti has an edge. Of course I'm not at all disputing the fact that Toyota is much better than a Maruti.

That is why such forums and such topics exists to educate the people. If one has not heard about Toyota in a Tier 3 city, I would be most surprised. However if one likes to remain in a closed well and not change with the times, then that's his point of view. With regards to maintenance costs, My Corolla was cheaper to maintain and run than my Santro. If low price was the only criteria in India then Nano would not be selling at 1K units as it did in August (1202 units in Aug 2011). Perceptions are changing and people want quality and long term value which is why they will wake up to 'T' slowly. First movers advantage, anyone?

----------------------

Nissan Sunny launched. Aggressive pricing for Nissan Sunny 1.5 petrol. XE: Rs 5.78 lakh, XL 6.68 lakh, XV 7.68 lakh (ex-Delhi). Diesel coming in Jan

Review and pictures here - http://www.team-bhp....ive-review.html

The Japanese are invading India.... Tata, Maruti beware...

Edited September 20, 2011 by dkaile

[amtrag 20]

The Japanese are invading India.... Tata, Maruti beware...

Isn't Maruti (...Suzuki) Japanese?

Regarding cost of maintenance, I believe Maruti is also one of the cheapest and they do last long enough that one would get bored.

But yes, given a choice today, I would definitely explore all options rather than buying a Maruti blind-foldedly. When I purchased my Wagon-R, the only alternatives were Indica & Santro but the market has indeed changed a lot today and for the better.

[dkaile 1,051]

Isn't Maruti (...Suzuki) Japanese?

Suzuki had a head start in India, courtesy our err... 'biased' policies and political whims. It entered in 1983, a full 17 years head start over other manufacturers like Toyota. It ruled and we lapped up whatever was given to us. It was able to establish a good dealer network in that period. If things would have been on an even keel aka other world markets, Suzuki would have been wiped out by now as it is mainly surviving on the Indian gamble that has payed very well for it. And right now, MSL is more Indian than Japanese. Our markets too will mature now and we will start rejecting inferior and well as over-priced products. BTW Etios/Liva are one of the first brands in India to start using 'Stainless Steel' in the corrosion prone areas and we never get to see those things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki Based in Gurgaon, India, Maruti Suzuki India Limited is Suzuki's largest and most valuable subsidiary with an annual production of 1,018,365 units in the fiscal 2009–2010.

Der Spiegel says VW could make hostile move to take over Suzuki. This is going to be one heck of a fight now http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-09-19/news/30175942_1_volkswagen-hostile-takeover-bid-vw

Edited September 21, 2011 by dkaile

[city02 63]

has anyone bought a 'certified used / pre-owned car' from any dealership yet?

if so how was your experience?

[csmart 472]

one of my friends has bought from Mahindra' co which exclusively deals in pre owned car. he got swift with 2 years on road warranty and is happy with it. his driving is very limited.

i always prefer new either new or form a person whom you know really well and aware how well it is maintain.

[kshah 452]

JD power report if any one is interested

Vehicle dependability

http://content1.businesscenter.jdpower.com/JDPAContent/CorpComm/News/content/Releases/pdf/2011083.pdf

2010 India Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study

http://content3.businesscenter.jdpower.com/JDPAContent/CorpComm/News/content/Releases/pdf/2010234-inda.pdf

2010 India Initial Quality Study

http://content3.businesscenter.jdpower.com/JDPAContent/CorpComm/News/content/Releases/pdf/2010231-iiq2.pdf

India Dealer Satisfaction

http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/JDPAContent/CorpComm/News/content/Releases/pdf/2011036-idsm.pdf

And here is of japan only

http://content3.businesscenter.jdpower.com/JDPAContent/CorpComm/News/content/Releases/pdf/2011161-jiqs.pdf

[samir10129 47]

Hello All...

Planning to buy Grand Punto Diesel (Emotion)

any suggestion..

Thanks..

[dkaile 1,051]

^

Fiat seems a dying brand in India (and in the world) even though the product is quite good. If you are ready to live with poor resale, bad A-S-S, non-availability of parts few years down the line, then go ahead.

[samir10129 47]

@dkaile Thanks..

So which diesel car you will suggest for me. (My daily running is around 50 KM)

My budget is 6 Lacks.

Thanks in advance.

[csmart 472]

if not urgeny, wait for nissan sunny. or else toyota etios/liva or maruti.

[dkaile 1,051]

@samir

1. Liva Diesel (looks best in blue and ruby red) 6L

2. Swift Diesel (looks best in white) 5.5~7L

3. Beat Diesel (looks best in white) 4.5~6L

in that order; all 3 are capable cars; choose according to budget and proximity/quality of A-S-S in your area.

@csmart

Sunny Diesel will come in Jan; will cost upwards of 8 lacs on road; also its a sedan and not a hatch;

[digitalnirvana 646]

For an entry level sedan which is better - Tata Indigo eCS or Mahindra Logan/Verito. I know the eCS is cheaper and has more features but keep hearing about reliability, shoddy fit and finish issues. While the consensus on Logan/Verito is it is reliable but outdated. I could get employee discount on M&M but that would not be deciding factor, also I am inherently biased towards Tata as our company used to be an ancillary for them. I would rather not get a hatchback but low cost sedan. To be honest, I am not thinking of buying anytime soon, but wanted thoughts of gurus. Thanks.

[dkaile 1,051]

^

Verito is a better product any day. However Nissan Sunny (petrol) is a good quality choice now with starting price of 5.78L ex showroom if you travel less than 1500km in a month.

[digitalnirvana 646]

^

Thanks, read the review on TBHP and your posts there too, as always you make sense.

[amtrag 20]

@dkaile,

Read your ownership review on Tbhp and posted comments too (see post #19 in your thread).

[dkaile 1,051]

@dkaile,

Read your ownership review on Tbhp and posted comments too (see post #19 in your thread).

Thank you amtrag/anuragn

Thank you DL

[mgdelhi 192]

Honda has launched it small car. Honda Brio.

Prices (ex-showroom Delhi)

E - 3.95L

S - 4.35L

S - (o) 4.90L

V - 5.10L

Good prices, IMO.

[tanveer 59]

No diesel?

[ani_meher 42]

Brio will beat i10, ritz, beat and Liva (petrol versions) a lot. I liked Brio, really great pricing for the offering.

[dkaile 1,051]

^

Brio top end is nearly equal to Jazz entry level now with the price cuts and Jazz is a more complete package. The Boot of the Brio is almost unusable and rear seats have low head space.