GSM Mobile Operators Not Happy With CDMA EVDO High Speed Internet Service

[M.S.Rao 64]

The GSM Mobile Operators such as Idea, Airtel, Vodafone etc are not happy with the High Speed EVDO Internet Service being offered by almost all CDMA operators (RCOM, TATA & MTS) of the country.

The GSM Mobile Operators are taking EVDO Service as a threat to their 3G Services. The GSM Operator, at the 3G auctions, shelled thousand of crores to get 3G Spectrum to offer 3G Services. But the CDMA Operators are offering Fast Internet on 800 Mhz Band of the spectrum given to them to offer 2G (Voice) Services.

Since CDMA technology is better in terms of Spectrum Ulitisation, CDMA operators started offering CDMA EVDO/1X Data Services as early as 2008. The CDMA operators had bought PAN India Spectrum for just 1658 crores. This makes them offer EVDO/CDMA 1X High Speed Internet at cheap rates as compared to 3G Services. At almost Rs. 1000 or even less you get an Unlimited Plans.

The GSM Mobile Operators Association, COAI has made a formal complaint to the Telecom Ministry saying that since CDMA Operators are offering High Speed Internet without paying the premium/actual cost of the spectrum, has resulted in loss to the government. And DoT has asked the the CDMA operators regarding the Frequency band in which they are offering the EVDO Service and details of the specific permission/sanction taken to operate these services.

Source: telecomgyaan.com

[santanu@impaq 16]

the so called 3G spectrum is just a band in 2100Mhz.

It can be used for Voice in WCDMA mode

It can be used for DATA in HSDPA Mode

The Goof ups the DOT and the ministry did in allocating the 800 to 900 Mhz bands is not the fault of CDMA operators.

Also no spectrum has been released to CDMA operators in the upper 1900Mhz band till date because defence ministry is sitting on it.

CDMA cannot be held culprit just because it is more spectrum efficient

License conditions allowed every operator to offer data on the lower bands( data speed was not clearly defined at that time ).

It is just that the DOT conveniently forgot that EVDO service is possible at 800Mhz band at the behest of one major operator, I do not want to name.

Now we have EVDO Rev B being offered which is very fast and has caused the GSM lobby to react in the manner they are reacting now.

[@mitJ@in 256]

Lols, Now they are reacting after 3 years.

CDMA 3G EVDO is best as 800Mhz Rocks though less speed but high coverage.

[santanu@impaq 16]

EVDO Rev B with 2 carriers offer 6.2mbps and with 3 carriers offering comensurately faster data rivalling HSPA+ which is why now GSM operators have woke up.

There is also a rumour of CDMA operators being given spectrum in 1900Mhz band in near future as soon as defence vacates it.

GSM operators want that the 1900Mhz spectum for CDMA should also be auctioned whereas the the GSM operators got it at throw away price because in GSM it was called upper 2G band for carrying cheap voice for the masses.

Bottom line for us cdma users is that EVDO at 800Mhz gives excellent coverage indoors and we are all very satisfied with the speeds since on handsets any further speed increase will not have a dramatic effect. Negetively any 4G tech like Wimax , LTE whenever deployed, will only add to battery drain.

But again these are my personal views. offending anyone is not my intention

[@mitJ@in 256]

Very Good Explanation

[rajanmehta 4,056]

Has the license condition ever specified that CDMA HSD data can't be provided on 800 Mhz band of existing spectrum held by CDMA operators? Don't think so. GSM operators paid in 3G "Auction" for getting additional spectrum in the respective circles. The cost was not meant to be seen as a license to provide 3G services. Technology neutral stance of govt in the past suggests that if you have the spectrum, you can provide any service on it if your platform allows it.

GSM guys may actually know that their imaginery grouse is not going to work. They may be preparing for larger battle ahead. If they start making noice now, it helps in what they consider bigger threats. Remember news of MDA's Reliance LTE venture's proposed tie up with RCOMM and suggestions of even voice bundled with data.

[santanu@impaq 16]

Rajan bhai, you have hit the nail on the head.

They are perparing for the larger battle ahead.

The cost paid for 5 Mhz chunk in the 2.1 Ghz band has been steep for A+V+I combine.

Bid by MDA for BWA has taken them for a bit of surprise.

If MDA deploys LTE on RCOM backbone them matters become worse for A+V+I combine.

Using packet codec voice on data channels is another problem for A+V+I combine.

Airtel+Vodafone+Idea combine is sharing 2.1Ghz amongst themselves in areas where all three do not have spectrum. To what extent is that legal ?

Edited November 12, 2011 by santanu@impaq

[garry1313 7]

DoT has already questioned and stated the process of 3G spectrum sharing illegal. Economic Times said that the ministry is even thinking of giving notice to A + V + I for the MOU of spectrum sharing between them. It has termed it as Breach of License Condition and has clearly said that the licensee can not offer 3G where it has not purchased the spectrum. Operators may also get penalized for this breach of license.

[Jagan T 16]

DOT conveniently forgot that EVDO service is possible at 800Mhz band at the behest of one major operator, I do not want to name.

Now we have EVDO Rev B being offered which is very fast and has caused the GSM lobby to react in the manner they are reacting now.

Nice observation .

This discussion is very informative. Other RIM Gurus, please share ur inputs!

If Reliance & Tata used the CDMA technology properly, we - the rare species of CDMA fans - are much ahead of other GSM users.

[inception 75]

i think roaming can be offered between HSPA players but A+V+I is also offering commercial services in those circles where they do not have 3G spectrum using other's spectrum. It is like renting or sharing spectrum. It can not be tolerated and DoT, TRAI and TDSAT must end this. Frankly I believe these trio is the evil axis of Indian telecom industry.

[santanu@impaq 16]

Technically the operators are allowed to enter into roaming agreements for allowing acess to subscribers to areas where other operators do not have service.

If the operators use the 2.1Ghz band for voice and allow roaming to subscribers then it is quite legal.

The DOT bosses forgot to lay proper guidelines while the same spectrum is being used for DATA vide HSDPA route.

The GSM players have used this loophole to enter into a sort of pseudo roaming agreement for DATA .

DOT can at the most stop further use of the method.

It may not be legally possible to penalize the GSM players.

Just to aviod any penal action, the GSM players are making noise about the CDMA players offering EVDO services in 800 Mhz Band.

They say if GSM players are at fault then so are the CDMA players.

[commonman 228]

^^

It is one thing to offer 3G data roaming through agreement with another operator.

It is a completely different thing to use 3G spectrum allotted to another co. and sell 3G services to consumers of a circle where the company did not get any 3G spectrum. That is illegal by all means.

e.g. Idea does not have 3G spectrum in Delhi. So it can enter into agreement with any other co. to offer 3G roaming to customers of cities where they have 3G spectrum when such customers come to Delhi. But they are also selling 3G services to Delhi customers (who are Delhi based and hence not on roaming) by using the spectrum of other co.

that defeats the very purpose of auction.

[santanu@impaq 16]

^ Dear Saikat

If what the GSM players did was absolutely unsustainable under law, then DOT would have filed the case in Tribunal long ago.

Unified access license allow roaming in areas where the operator does not have service.

In Unified access license, Roaming is not forbidden even with the same circle but no operator had earlier offered roaming for voice.

MTS has been using TATA backbone for EVDO in various circles

The GSM operators advertised 3G service as pan india to the customers and did a back door agreement amongst themselves.

The ministry is in a limbo and now they are thinking to make entire country as one single service area.

[rajanmehta 4,056]

The ministry is in a limbo and now they are thinking to make entire country as one single service area.

Errm... Things are not as they look... Ministry has already prepared a note approved by telecom secretary and sent to Law Ministry for further advice on a legally sound course of action.

Battle lines are drawn.

If nothing else, National Security concern argument can always be thrown in if anything needs to be blocked in Telecom..

‘Illegal’ 3G sharing can be a security nightmare: Telecom ministry >> http://www.dnaindia....inistry_1612080

[shrik 9]

If nothing else, National Security concern argument can always be thrown in if anything needs to be blocked in Telecom..

‘Illegal’ 3G sharing can be a security nightmare: Telecom ministry >> http://www.dnaindia....inistry_1612080

But then, the best way to cure this "nightmare" is to abolish the concept of roaming itself. Hope they fast track the "one nation, one circle" vision in the interest of sound sleep for security agencies

[sgiitk 32]

+1 Rajan bhai.

In our country if you crib loud enough and long enough someone is likely to try and help you. Even more so since 2G is a very hot potato.

@shrik; Roaming may be abolished one day not too far off.

[Jagan T 16]

Today, AVI cartel told that going to approach PM to protect their backdoor agreement on 3G sharing, and threatened to surrender their 3G spectrum if their agreement challenged by TRAI.

Hope a lot of war is going to happen along with 3G!

[viper_in_blood 4]

let the govt of INDIA take a hard decision of taking back the spectrum and make the nation under one network provider so the no roaming ..no different tariffs ...better services for the custmer and more revenue for the govt....atleast the cartel gets over n thy come as beggars again in this nation.

[petar 15]

No competition is really bad. Babu days of MTNL, BSNL will come back in no time....

lets face it- end of the day- these guys are here to make money... no business is here for charity. 3G, 4G - 10G... wtever comes... they are here to make money.

Despite of cartels & what not... we still have lowest tariff in the world for voice calls.

[krishnendu halder 24]

DOT conveniently forgot that EVDO service is possible at 800Mhz band at the behest of one major operator, I do not want to name.

Now we have EVDO Rev B being offered which is very fast and has caused the GSM lobby to react in the manner they are reacting now.

Nice observation .

This discussion is very informative. Other RIM Gurus, please share ur inputs!

If Reliance & Tata used the CDMA technology properly, we - the rare species of CDMA fans - are much ahead of other GSM users.

they are not using coz they themselves have gsm service..only Mts is providing 2gbpm in evdo.

[me_saket 73]

plz share ur view on following

1)AVI cartel is doing IRCA(intra cirrcle roaming ) for 3G services like video calls and internet via USB modem.

2) vodafone launched netcruise , MTS network based EVDO service.

what is dieerence between thse thwo.

i found no differnce, vodafone not having EVDO,

so selling dongle under netcruise brnad, reciving payment of rechage from customer,

and were given a dongle which is having MTS MDN, and work on MTS network.

Same is happening with 3G, except service available on SIM card which works on handse and USB modem.

they Why DOT/TRAI is not taking any objection.

----------------------------------------------

i came to know that uninor is jumping into data card business from just prepaid 2G mobile service provider.

Uninor will bundle MTS EVDO modem under it's own brand and launch service very soon.

[KanagaDeepan 1,084]

^^^^^

There are few big differences...

1. BSNL paid huge amount to become a PAN INDIA 3G operator... Now cartel getting that benefit with almost quarter of that amount...

2. Even though EV-DO is 3G of CDMA, it is NOT auctioned to a ridiculously huge amount like 3GSM...

Vodafone's Netcruise is equal to T24 service on TataGSM network and NOT cartel's 3G backdoor entering lust...

[inception 75]

I think MTS is selling its EVDO/HSD services under Vodafone brand name ........

>> MTS is paying for using Vodafone brand name

T24 is more of royality program for Future Grp customers - free talktime given on tata docomo gsm network.

[Arun 795]

Data services by CDMA operators are beyond scope of licence: DoT wing

The Hindu Business Line

New Delhi, March 19, 2012

Reliance Communications, Tata Teleservices and Sistema Shyam could be in trouble with their high speed data services.

The licensing wing of the Department of Telecom has taken a view that the data services being offered by the CDMA operators are outside the purview of the existing licences.

The three operators started offering data services based on the EVDO (Evolution Data Optimised) technology, which is essentially a 3G technology. The DoT wing has stated in an internal report that the existing 2G licences did not specify such type of service.

Key issue:

“It may be observed that the scope of Unified Access Services Licence has no mention of the term EVDO. Additionally, UASL does not define the term EVDO,” an internal note stated. But the DoT has not taken a final decision in the matter and has asked the Wireless Planning & Coordination wing to give its view on the issue.

The key issue is whether the three operators can offer 3G services on existing CDMA spectrum. In a bid to get around the issue, they have termed the services as high speed data services and not 3G. But the licensing wing has stated that EVDO is a 3G technology in the migration roadmap for CDMA players. There are over 5 million subscribers on the EVDO platform in India.

The DoT is looking into the services offered by the three CDMA operators after the Cellular Operators' Association of India (COAI) lodged a complaint. The COAI represents GSM players in the country.

The industry body had raised this issue after the DoT disallowed GSM players to offer roaming services on 3G spectrum.

The COAI had raised concerns that CDMA operators are offering high-speed Internet access without paying an auction fee, like in the case of 3G services, causing a revenue loss of over Rs 14,800 crore to the government.

Citing the DoT guidelines of August, 2008, COAI had alleged that spectrum was to be auctioned in the 450 MHz and 800 MHz band for EVDO services and in the 1,900 MHz band when it becomes available.

Meanwhile, the DoT has reiterated its stand on disallowing 3G roaming to operators which do not have spectrum. The DoT was asked to review its decision at a recent meeting chaired by the Prime Minister.

[KanagaDeepan 1,084]

EV-DO on existing spectrum is OK and NOT as bad as ICRA-3G spectrum, imho.... But still I have no sympathy for the CDMA players due to their greediness (high tariff + LOCKED modems [esp TATA] )...