Bad News.

[solanky 0]

Bad news! Your cell bill’s gonna zoom

NEW DELHI: All those enjoying special low rates for making calls to another subscriber of the same service provider — say from a Hutch phone to a Hutch phone, or from an Airtel to another Airtel handset — may now have to pay more for the same call.

The Department of Telecommunications (DoT) has decided to issue a directive asking all telecom operators to avoid discrimination in charges for routing calls.

Operators have been asked to withdraw tariff schemes charging much lower rates for calls terminating within the network of the same operator than those terminating in other networks. This would increase tariffs for more than 60m mobile users, as operators would withdraw lower tariffs for intra-network calls.

Currently, a one-minute local Reliance-to-Reliance call costs just 40 paise under some of its schemes. Similarly, Hutch-to-Hutch local calls cost 50 paise per minute under some of its popular schemes and Airtel-to-Airtel local calls cost Re 1 per minute.

Union communications minister Dayanidhi Maran has informed prime minister Manmohan Singh of its decision.

Source: Economic Times

[Puneet 0]

Believe our politicians to take 2 steps back for a step forward.

[kshah 452]

its that politicians do not like India to be behind, they want to bring Indian telecom services at par with the world, so they cant afford it being most economical telecommunication in the world, we all must appreciate their commitment to the country :lol

[anujit 0]

They really try hard dont they. Almost like RIM does try extra hard to disable anything useful on a Nokia phone!

[ashoksoft 83]

Hey what about Rim2Rim free calls on RCV 440 ?

will that also be stopped ?

[Puneet 0]

While it was Mukesh at the helm of affairs, RIm could be trusted to find a way out. But who knows how does the junior deals with the situtation. Keep your fingers crossed ashok

[ashoksoft 83]

yeah considering my girl and me just love reliance ... I guess they need to maintain that trust factor! what say anil bhai ? if not ur elder bro ... ask me at least ... ur younger bro!

Cheers

Ashok

[deepu 0]

Perhaps the other operators are afraid of Reliance's STD free plan!!!

[Ramchi 0]

Universal telephone number system and non-discriminatory services must be brought in. If you look at the tariff [http://www.bsnl.co.in/service/basictariff010503.htm] plans of BSNL [Landline] or any other provider you need to split your head to find out which plan is best for you.

Simply minutes calculations and one telephone number system should be the way to go. This would enable Maran’s dream of One India where any one any where in the country can call the other with the same call rate.

This in turn to help mobile providers to reduce over all call rates across mobile phones and land lines. Even after TRAI reducing ADC no major providers passed these benefits to customer. But the moment TRAI charges something they implement it from the next day.

Edited August 23, 2005 by Ramchi

[Pankaj Verma 0]

If this happens it will be great setback to Reliance.

[SexyGurl 0]

Dayanidhi Maran is practical a$$ hole.

Many of you would laugh at this .. but my respect for Laloo Prasad Yadav has increased considerably (... atleast he's much much better than Ram vilas paswan and the a$$ hole mentioned above).

Lalloo ... may speak like he does .... but he's been a far better railway minister (see some of the latest railway ads in newspapers).

[ani_meher 42]

Dayanidhi Maran is practical a$$ hole.

Many of you would laugh at this .. but my respect for Laloo Prasad Yadav has increased considerably (... atleast he's much much better than Ram vilas paswan and the a$$ hole mentioned above).

Lalloo ... may speak like he does .... but he's been a far better railway minister (see some of the latest railway ads in newspapers).

38775[/snapback]

Oh yes, the a$$holes who initiated the one-state one-rate thing. Because of him we've saved so much money. Because of him we can make all Maharashtra (and also other states) local calls. Truely an a$$. Why won't he be like your preffered Laloo, ignoring Mumbai's local trains state, and taking care that more trains are available for outsiders to dump themselves in Mumbai.

Ya, I see your point. Sadly, I don't agree.

[Parijat19 0]

Guys,

Dont start a political discussion here. There can be endless debates on which politician is good or bad.. or whether the so called mumbaikers have a right to stop others from coming into mumbai, given the fact that most people coming from outside are the ones who give a major helping hand in running most businesses in mumbai. And also the fact that a mjority of the so called Mumbaikers themselves are from outside the city or state..

This DoT decision is definitely going to affect RIM users adversely, but trust Ambanis to find a way out of this.. Lets keep our fingers crossed.. and till then make the most of the services

[SexyGurl 0]

hehe .. benefits of india-one plan !!! wait till you get it.

The cheap tariffs for mobile India are atleast 90% because of reliance infocomm. I would tend to give the rest 10% benefit to be shared between Vajpayee, Arun Shourie and Pradeep Baijal.

Maran has hardly done anything positive ... even the Maha-mumbai thing .. I would tend to weigh it in terms of how much it has stengthened the industry (rather than short-term tariff relief). If the industry goes financially weak ... .tariffs will easily go up, back again.

I don't know if Maha-mumbai thing has had marked improvement in mobile sales in the region? -- nothing is stated in the press, atleast.

Be sure, customers don't win alone.... it has to be win-win for the industry and customers. Low tariff-higher base and higher revenues is what should be the target.

Maha-mumbai was hardly a shattering event in that context. Compare this to the impact from entry of infocomm. Tariffs nosedived and subscriber base shot up.

Second impact .... slashing of prepaid tariffs and sub-330 vouchers by reliance (and the 440 unlimited voucher) ... huge impact-> tariffs lower, base higher. Again a win-win.

If India-one plan means low-STD but higher Local rates .... I don't think I can support it or that I look forward to it.

[anujit 0]

One India like CAS wont happen. The service providers wont let it.

[Ramchi 0]

“One India” was already suggested by the TRAI long back and NDA government was opting for this option as well. Maran is just speeding up things in this direction. First step is removing Chennai-TN, Mumbai-Maharashtra separation which benefited millions of subscribers and also increased in call volumes. In developed countries normally local providers do not charge for local calls and national level providers allow significant free minutes which amounts to thousands of INR. We can not compare Indian tariff with other countries.

Indian consumers had to take the beatings from the providers for such a prolonged duration purely due to Shuk Ram and his Northi associates who bribed the bidding of various circles. There was no need for such separation when the bidding for mobile operation was initiated; the only reason why Maharashtra-Mumbai;TN-Chennai etc…came only for making more money by then infamous Manmohan era Congress led by Rao.

Maran has already highlighted that all calls across the country would be made as local calls just like in US. You can retain the number even if you have to change your provider which is again a big boon the customers. The next logical step is making unlimited local calls within the subscribing areas just like developed countries. This way customers can opt for a package where he can effectively make use of his phone to the maximum extend and reduce the dependency of vehicles [by telecommuting], help reducing pollution etc… The future is total mobility and you can’t charge the customer at exorbitant rates. One India is the way to go.

[anujit 0]

Ramchi,

Who on earth told you that local calls are free in "developed" countries. Only place where it is free is in N.A. - well USA & Canada only and on landlines only. And lets define free - in New York city - calls between two buroughs Queens & Manhattan - costs MONEY! Wheres it free! In UK all calls costs MONEY - local too!

And it costs PER call on MOBILES in USA! And several times what it costs in India.

On Verizon a 450 minute plan gives Unlimited IN Calling (such as RIM to RIM) AND Night & Weekend Home Airtime Minutes at $39.99 (Rs. 1600/month) and above 450 minutes it costs $0.45 p/minute (Rs. 18 per minute). And thats just the basic costs. Then you have messaging, data plans, operator assistance and what nots!

Now since the major costs for telecom service providers is equipment costs (manpower costs are considerably less since they arent trenching cables)... a massive portion of the operating costs are the same - India buys telecom infrastucture from global players thoses costs remain the same more or less. Plus the subscriber base is several times there what is in India.

---------------------------------------

Secondly, who loses with rate cuts - the SERVICE PROVIDERS - and they'll take that loss for the benefit of their subscribers? Cummon not even Sunil Mital is that nice.

And before you start on volumes will rise.... lemme tell you if volumes rises it causes strains on the network... till it reaches a level where it overloads the infrastructure and then the service provider has to install more infrastructure to provide more bandwidth (it costs more to grow too fast -- a law of business). Remember those "network busy" messages!

And as for number switching it will only happen within a circle only..... that will only cause more confusion because you think you're calling RIM2RIM on a new "unlimited RIM2RIM call voucher" only to see it comes back to bite you in the a$$ cause you called BSNL which has the highest interconnect rates coz they're still bitchin they lost their ADC money!

Enjoy your one India.

--------------------------------------------------------------

The only thing the govt. should do is remove the ADC. Have a revenue sharing agreement instead for a maximum of 5 years --- with % of revenue falling each year. With further discounts for those who setup infrastructure in rural areas. If RIM sets up infrastructure in a Jhumri talia -- they shouldnt have to pay BSNL ADC for calls made to/from there!

Then remove the army from internationally available bandwidths. What the hell are they doing there anyways!

And facilitate R&D and assembly units in India so that reduces costs.

And finally and most importantly BACK OFF after that. Rajiv Gandhi and co. dabbled too much with setting hardware/electronics/manufacturing and forgot all about software. And we are ever grateful to them for that!

It's good to let the market compete. Let the BSNLs, MTNLs, RIMs & Airtels slug it out against each other.

Enjoy the ride.

[Shabz 8]

Well in UAE if you call within a state ie calls from dubai to dubai or from Sharjah to Sharjah is free but from dubai to sharjah it is chargeable

[gids 0]

dat means that dapo customers have to suffer more?????

[Ramchi 0]

Anujit,

I am not a Reliance shareholder so I am NOT unduly worried about how the rate cuts would impact service providers.

When ADC charges were slashed none of the providers passed it to customers. But when TRAi slapped ADC couple of years ago, the very next day every provider without informing the customers started charging. So passing ADC back to customer is not going to happen in India.

Right now customers are going thru difficulties in choosing plans. Just look at the link I have provided [bSNL Tariff] and see how a customer can make clear decision?

Call charges are made out to be cheaper when you compare the rates with international tariffs but what you fail to see is $50 PM for an American is nothing compared to INR 2000 PM for an average Indian. An average US customer [not even middle-class customer] $50 is 1/50 of his household income definitely lot cheaper than what you made out to be.

Customer base & Volume:

Potential customer base is more in India than in US or UK or Canada for that matter. Every rate cut would increase call volumes. There will be performance hit but 100% network use would really benefit provider as well. Providers can always increase their revenues thru value added services at affordable cost. There are inconveniences when the usage factor increases; it happens everywhere in this world. Providers must use technology to over come this issue and there is no medal for coming second!

Universal number system, single rate across the country not only benefits the customer but also providers on the long run. The competition would be more when every provider is offering their services on equal grounds. People can move freely to one provider to another seamlessly without having to worry about losing their numbers.

If profit is the only motive we don’t need innovation; even without that Reliance can make more money by having shareholders as their customer!

Btw, technology wise Reliance network or handset is NOT on par with GSM providers. GSM providers are moving fast towards EDGE/3G technologies.

Cheers!!!

[basant_jp 0]

Btw, technology wise Reliance network or handset is NOT on par with GSM providers. GSM providers are moving fast towards EDGE/3G technologies.

Cheers!!!

38825[/snapback]

Technology wise Reliance network is way ahead of any GSM operator in India. For that matter, it's the handsets not the network. And you must understand and accept, Reliance is not a handset manufacturing company, it is a service provider. Since CDMA is a newer (and better ofcourse) technology in India (hardly two years man) compared to decade old GSM, have some patience to get good handsets. Afterall, its just the last 2 years that we have seen good GSM handsets... (that's after 8 years of GSM in India...). As for the handsets, do you remember the very first RIM handsets???, Samsung SCH N191 and LG RD 2030.....it was only after these handsets that the GSM phone widely started having feature like polyphonic ringtones and java enabled digital multimedia functionality in India. Otherwise, we were just stuck upto the Nokia 3310 or such phones (though these phones were good, but not feature rich!!!!!!). Anyway, we will soon have advanced CDMA handsets.

RIM has became the second largest service provider in just One Year (it was the first to cross the 10 million landmark!!!!), it is beacuse of the affordable handsets and quality services at affordable price. To grow big, you need to capture the masses first, that's what RIM did and is doing. After all, the market for high-end handsets would not be more than 10 percent of the total sale in India. It does not mean we don't need high-end models, we do

Okay, as for the 3G services, Reliance network is prepared with EV-DO deployment. It should not take more that few months to deploy the same once the spectrum issue is resolved. FYI, Typical speeds on EDGE network is between 100-130 kbps, which is capable of speeds up to 216 kbps..theoritically 384 Kbps... (It is advertised as *nearly double the speed of CDMA 1xRTT*, that means just the double of what RIM users are getting right now. ). And for EV-DO, the average speed is about 500-700 Kbps, which is capable of speeds up to 2.4 Mbps. Now compare the two.....

As far as GSM providers moving fast for EDGE, they are actually fearing that Spectrum policy may help Reliance launch EV-Do before they launch EDGE (Due to the loopholes in the policy, or some other mean Ambanis better know ). GO through the following clipping -

****************************************************************

NEW DELHI: Cellular operators fear that forthcoming Trai recommendations on spectrum would favour CDMA players in terms of allocation besides providing an extra carrier for the largest CDMA player.............."Any provision of additional carriers now to CDMA players would be grossly anti-competitive as it would enable them to offer 3G services immediately via EVDO. Such move would benefit only the largest CDMA operator," according to an internal spectrum note of COAI.

"Thus a backdoor entry into 3G could be secured by the largest CDMA player while the GSM players (along with the second largest CDMA players) would be kept waiting till the IMT-2000 spectrum is made available to all." This will further benefit the first backdoor entrant into 3G through the EVDO route which will have a tremendous first mover advantage, T V Ramachandran, DG, COAI said in the note.

*****************************************************************

Cheers!

Edited August 23, 2005 by basant_jp

[ashoksoft 83]

well Ramchi ... I believe that ... whatever ur opinions are ... somehow they do not exactly match some of our opinions. ... well when u have One-India, don't u think... it is better off having a local call from Kanyakumari to Kashmir ? (who knows there could be a girlfriend of someone from kanyakumari in kashmir)

Another thing, neither am i a shareholder in rim ... I am still a college student ... and with that lemme tell u ... can any (choice is urs... ) service provider gimme the voice clarity offered on RIM network ? how many other operators have this huge a fan following that they have a discussion forum ? which operators were functional when there was a case of emergency (Eg. the floods we had here on 26th jul. in mumbai)?

well dude ... each one has a different perception ... and believe me ... if u do not wish to enrich ambani's pocket ... dont ! who is forcing u ... but there are a lot more people who are definetly gonna pay into his pocket!

BTW ... considering we are in india ... things dont generally pass on so fast ... we will have a long wait to see... what is the real outcome.

Another thing ... yes! what anujit has said is true, about call charges in US. now that is something to be considered.... on a 440 voucher u are getting unlimited calls to Rim in ur circle (and for a lot of us ... who have numbers from Metro cities... the circle is the whole state.) WITH MOBILITY... unlike any other place around...

(No offence intended.. to anyone)

Cheers

Ashok

[Pankaj Verma 0]

Great Ramchi I think you now must know good things about RIM

[city02 63]

Technology wise Reliance network is way ahead of any GSM operator in India. For that matter, it's the handsets not the network. And you must understand and accept, Reliance is not a handset manufacturing company, it is a service provider.  Since CDMA is a newer (and better ofcourse) technology in India (hardly two years man) compared to decade old GSM, have some patience to get good handsets. Afterall, its just the last 2 years that we have seen good GSM handsets... (that's after 8 years of GSM in India...). As for the handsets, do you remember the very first RIM handsets???, Samsung SCH N191 and LG RD 2030.....it was only after these handsets that the GSM phone widely started having feature like polyphonic ringtones and java enabled digital multimedia functionality in India. Otherwise, we were just stuck upto the Nokia 3310 or such phones (though these phones were good, but not feature rich!!!!!!). Anyway, we will soon have advanced CDMA handsets.

38830[/snapback]

CDMA may be newer tech but is not always better.

It has a capacity & cost advantage in dense metro areas but is actually more expensive to deploy in sparse rural areas than GSM.

The handset problem is an artificial one created by RIC unlike GSM where one can sign up with any operator after buying a handset from any shop.

By making a bottleneck on handset sourcing, the number of new models introduced is controlled by RIC and they also dont allow activation on competitor's CDMA networks.

All these issues hurt the consumers and only marginally help RIC.

Until dual tech CDMA & GSM handsets are introduced here (they were just launched in China recently), this problem will persist.

10-20 models is simply not enough choice for the 10-15 million customers.

It should be around 30-40 models at least to cover all price points & features.

[ashoksoft 83]

Very well put city.... and yes I have seen a GSM+CDMA handset (my dad got one from china, on his last visit... and the quality of reception really s**ks, it was from some CBird company, on GSM.) I tried to port in the values of NAM / SID including the ESN to try to run on CDMA network but no idea how to .. it never really worked (and most of the programming menus are in chineese... which is bonkers for me...)

Cheers

Ashok